Ingates of Kirby Cane - baptisms around 1720?

[LizzieL]

Elizabeth Ingate married James Waters in Kirby Cane on 17 Nov 1747. William Ingate married Jane Barber in Ditchingham on 6 Mar 1753, the transcript on Free reg said they were both of Kirby Cane. All parties were single at marriage.

I would think that baptisms of William and Elizabeth would be around 1720, but there is no sign of them in KC or surrounding villages. Can anyone help locate them please.

I am assuming they are brother and sister but that might not be the case.

[The Yokel]

Found the Marriage Bond for James Waters, this says that his wife is Mary , and the PR says Elizabeth

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gd1/

Marriage Bond for William Ingate, mentions a Nicholas Ingate of Willingham Suffolk

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gd2/

The IGI has some Ingates around the Willingham/Ellough/Sotterley area of Suffolk

[LizzieL]

Thank you very much. I have found two children baptised to James and Elizabeth Waters in Kirby cane in 1748 and 1750, so I'm surprised that it is Mary in the marriage bond, maybe she had two forenames and was known by either.

I had seen other Ingate BMDs in Ellough, but had no definite connection, but Nicholas, also a blacksmith looks promising as a relative. The Ingates continue as blacksmiths in Kirby Cane for a few generations.

The signature of William Ingate on the two licences look the same so I think it is very likely that he and Elizabeth / Mary were brother and sister. 

[LizzieL]

This may be connected. William Ingate bach of the parish of Willingham married Ann Mallett widow otp at Geldeston by licence on 7 Nov 1780. One witness was Nicholas Ingate junior.

This William and Nicholas jnr might be brothers and born about 1750 ish and the sons of the Nicholas named on our William's marriage bond.

I would think that as witness Nicholas was signing his name as junior it meant his father was still alive in 1780.
There is a burial in 1795 at Ellough of a Nicholas with a birth year of 1705 (presumably calculated from age at death). 
I have just checked some old notes from a distant cousin who visited the graveyard once and I think our William died on 26 July 1783, which matches with burial on 29th with a note on the register that he was William senior. I think age at death gives birth year 1708/9, so older than I thought. I also have a note that Jane's age at death would make her birth year 1715.

[amondg]

The Norfolk Records Office has the following:
Will of William Ingate of Kirby Cane 1834, ref ANF will register 1831-1834, fo 566 (1834 # 5)

Removal Orders: Thomas Ingate was removed from Dickleburgh Norfolk to Willingham Suffolk 31 January 1714
Settlement Certificate: Thomas Ingate Willingham Suffolk  1 February 1714.

[LizzieL]

Thank you, that will reference is very useful. That William died with three known children surviving him, although one son only by about 8 days. It will be interesting to see if he had any other children that I haven't found.

The removal and settlement orders must connect somehow, but I haven't worked out how yet. The date would be when my earliest William (the father of the William who died in 1843) was a child, so unlikely to be a brother, probably one generation earlier, maybe two if he was an old man unable to work any more and likely to be a charge on the parish.

[LizzieL]

I've now found some apprentice records which seem connected.
James Waters wheelwright of Kirlley (sic) took on a Nicholas Ingate as apprentice - tax payment date 10 jan 1762. Then Nicholas Ingate of Willingham wheelwright took on apprentices Francis Beane and John Baker, tax paid on 24 May 1770 and 1 jun 1776 respectively.
This fits with him being Nicholas jnr and likely to be born in late 1740s.

[LizzieL]

I've been looking at Ellough records available on line. There are two baptisms to daughters of Nicholas and Elizabeth, they are Mary in 1715 and Sarah in 1717. But the parents can't be the Nicholas and Elizabeth buried in Ellough in 1795 and 1792 respectively as they would be much too young, years of birth 1705 and 1707. So there must be an older Nicholas who married another Elizabeth, possibly parents of Nicholas 1705, and Mary and Sarah are his younger sisters.

i've also found an apprentice record for a Thomas Ayres apprenticed to Nicholas and William Ingate blacksmiths of Willingham dated 1778

So now my theory is

Nicholas Ingate married Elizabeth X in early 1700s, they had children William (our William who became a blacksmith in Kirby Cane), Nicholas 1705 (who became a blacksmith in Willingham), Elizabeth (who married James Waters wheelwright of KC), Sarah and Mary (bapt in Kirby Cane). Nicholas 1705 (bondsman on our William's marriage licence) married Elizabeth Sherman in Sotterley in 1741 and they had children: William who became a blacksmith in Willingham (and was master jointly with his father to apprentice Thomas Ayers) and Nicholas jnr who was apprenticed to James Waters his uncle by marriage as a wheelwright. Nicholas jnr was witness on his brother's marriage record. There is a transcript of a gravestone for a William Curtis Ingate s/o William Nicholas and Ann buried 17 April 1786 who died in his ninth year. The dates would fit as W C Ingate being the son of Nicholas jnr and a wife whose maiden name might be Curtis. Also mentioned are Nicholas and Susannah who died as infants - possibly also Nicholas and Ann's children.
I need a few baptisms and marriages to support this theory though!

[LizzieL]

Removal Orders: Thomas Ingate was removed from Dickleburgh Norfolk to Willingham Suffolk 31 January 1714
Settlement Certificate: Thomas Ingate Willingham Suffolk  1 February 1714.

The removal and settlement orders must connect somehow, but I haven't worked out how yet. The date would be when my earliest William (the father of the William who died in 1843) was a child, so unlikely to be a brother, probably one generation earlier, maybe two if he was an old man unable to work any more and likely to be a charge on the parish.

Found a marriage licence for a Thomas Ingate, 31, (b abt 1683/4) blacksmith of Dicleburgh (sic) dated 26 Feb 1714 or 1715 to Susanna Kirby age 24 (b abt 1690/1) of Wootton. Marriage to be at Wootton or Reddenhall or Needham or Dicleburgh or Beddingham (hedging bets there!).
A Thomas and Susanna / Susanna have children in Beccles, including a couple of Nicholases