Author Topic: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.  (Read 4784 times)

Offline ev

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #9 on: Friday 30 October 15 16:34 GMT (UK) »
FreeBMD have a death for a Beatrice E Rolls 1st quarter 1937 age 59(born c1878) , Birmingham.

For some reason the 1897 marriage doesn't show on freeBMD if you enter Beatrice or Elizabeth  ???




ev
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Offline julie7239

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #10 on: Friday 30 October 15 18:28 GMT (UK) »
FreeBMD have a death for a Beatrice E Rolls 1st quarter 1937 age 59(born c1878) , Birmingham.

For some reason the 1897 marriage doesn't show on freeBMD if you enter Beatrice or Elizabeth  ???




ev

Thanks for that information.  At last I know something about her.  All this sounds right.

I just found a source that says she was married in St. Stephens, Hackington, Canterbury, Kent.  It gives the date 10th November 1897.

And that says she was born on January 3rd 1877 in Chelsea, London, in the borough of Islington, and her father was Samuel Park(s), a seaman in the Royal Navy, the 1881 census shows him as age 25, a Stoker on the HMS Superb, born in Lee, Kent, in 1856.

There seem to be question marks whether the surname for both Beatrice and her father Samuel is Park or Parks.

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Offline pinefamily

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #11 on: Friday 30 October 15 21:19 GMT (UK) »
That information may be misleading. There doesn't appear to be an Elizabeth Beatrice Park(s) of any combination in the London area in that time frame, both on FreeBMD and ancestry. Is this source another online tree?
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Carrington, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Bentham, Holloway, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Yorks, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline pinefamily

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #12 on: Friday 30 October 15 21:34 GMT (UK) »
OK, searching for a marriage for Harry Rolls, I found the marriage to  an Elizabeth Park; no "s", no middle name Beatrice. Searching for an Elizabeth Park, I found a birth entry on FreeBMD in the December quarter of 1879 in Islington registration district.
On ancestry, I then found an Elizabeth Park baptised on November 17th 1879,  to a William Joseph Park and wife Elizabeth.
I am Australian, from all the lands I come (my ancestors, at least!)

Pine/Pyne, Dowdeswell, Kempster, Sando/Sandoe/Sandow, Nancarrow, Carrington, Hounslow, Youatt, Richardson, Jarmyn, Oxlade, Coad, Bentham, Holloway, Lindner, Pittaway, and too many others to name.
Devon, Dorset, Gloucs, Cornwall, Yorks, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Wilts, Germany, Sweden, and of course London, to name a few.

Offline julie7239

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #13 on: Friday 30 October 15 22:08 GMT (UK) »
That information may be misleading. There doesn't appear to be an Elizabeth Beatrice Park(s) of any combination in the London area in that time frame, both on FreeBMD and ancestry. Is this source another online tree?

She was Beatrice Elizabeth Park.

Beatrice's marriage was in Hackington, which I just found out is in Canterbury, Kent.  I had assumed it was in London.  St Stephens is a parish in north west Canterbury.

I read that Beatrice was illegitimate, and there is no mention of her mother, only her father.  There doesn't seem to be any chance of finding much out about her parents, and this felt like a dead end. I was wondering what happened there, maybe her mother died young or giving birth to her, and her young father brought her up, maybe with the help of his female relatives.  Very unusual for them to be not married in those days.  He was a seaman who would have been away a lot.

Her father, Samuel Park(s) was born in Lee, Kent, and I had to look it up, and it looks as though it would nowadays be considered part of London, but in 1856 was a Kent village.



Offline Kay99

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 31 October 15 14:15 GMT (UK) »
You really need a copy of the 1897 marriage of Harry Rolls to Elizabeth Beatrice Park to confirm her father Samuel's occupation at least and you have the right Samuel Park(s).  The details given of the marriage on Ancestry are very basic and do not include father's occupations, addresses at the time of their marriage or witnesses who might be relatives. The  marriage ref number is Dec Quarter 1897 Blean Registration District Vol 2a Page 1897

I think this could be Beatrice Elizabeth in 1891 living in Islington with mother Clara and brother - I can't see this family in 1881 :-\

Clara Park 32  Widow b Lewisham
Herb W Park 15 b Bloomsbury
Beatrice E Park 14  b Chelsea
Harry Thompson 24  Lodger b Canterbury

If this is the right Beatrice/ Elizbeth -- Harry the lodger  married a Rebecca Hartley Park in 1895 in Islington and they were  living together in  1901 with stepson Herbert W Park as  below.   The ages and birthplaces of Rebecca in 1901 and Clara in 1891 are very similar and with Herbert being her son it is possible that Clara as listed in 1891 might be the same person as Rebecca Hartley Park in 1901?? :-\   

Harry Thompson  35  b Canterbury
Rebecca H Thompson 43  b Catford Kent
Herbert W Park 25 b Bloomsbury

Kay

Edit -I think you have access to Ancestry - Have a look at this family tree http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/25308367/person/1716281207


Offline julie7239

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 31 October 15 20:00 GMT (UK) »
Kay, thank you for all that information.  It is a lot I need to work on.  I would have come to a stop much earlier than finding this family.

I found this information about the marriage, "marriage witnesses were Frederick William Iggulden and Frank Carlyle Forrester".

I might also try looking up Samuel Park(s)' birth, death or marriage certificates.

These people are starting to feel like real people, interesting.  Thank you.

Offline julie7239

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 01 November 15 17:20 GMT (UK) »
I found some interesting information on Ancestry.com.

Something labelled "from England Select Marriages 1538 to 1973", listed under Harry Rolls, age 24, born 1873, marriage date 18th November 1897, Hackington, Kent, the household as Harry Rolls, Benjamin Rolls, Elizabeth Beatrice Park and Samuel Park.

I clicked on Samuel Park's name and Elizabeth Beatrice Park is listed as his "child".

I didn't have time to explore further, but this definitely links father Samuel Park with his daughter Beatrice Elizabeth and Harry Rolls.

I do know that Harry's parents were Bengamin (sic) Rolls, born 1836, and Harriet Davis, born 1835.

So it looks as though this information is about the wedding, and both their fathers are listed as "household"?  I am wondering if this means they were physically present and living together in a household?

Offline julie7239

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Re: Beatrice Elizabeth Park and Elizabeth Shiel.
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 01 November 15 17:33 GMT (UK) »
More information on Samuel Park from the censuses.

In the 1861 census he is listed as age 5.  Father James and mother Elza (sic).  Born Plumstead, Kent, civil parish Lee.  Household listed as James 38, Elza 29, Martha 15 and Samuel 5.

In the 1871 census Samuel Parks, age 15, born 1856.  Royal Navy, Portsmouth Harbour, Boy 2nd Class. Given as born Kennington, Surrey which seems odd so not sure if that is the right person.

In the 1881 census, Samuel Parks, birth about 1856 in Lee, Kent.  Residence 1881 Vessels, Royal Navy, England.  Age 25.  "Superb", occupation Stoker, Royal Navy.

In the 1901 census, Samuel Parks and spouse Clara Parks.  His birth place is given as Mayfield, Hailsham, Sussex, so this might not be the right person.  Household given as Samuel Parks age 44, Clara age 43, Clara A age 22 and Mary E age 8.