Erpingham workhouse Knowles

[Mike Knowles]

Hi all
I am trying to find info on Frederick Knowles born 1886/7 in Hunworth to Ellen Knowles (unmarried). In 1901 Ellen and sister Harriet were in the Erpingham workhouse With Arthur, Frederick,May,Sidney. I believe all were Ellen's children apart from Arthur.Sadly most died in the workhouse including another daughter Harriet had whilst there, but Ellen eventually left with Sidney and married a William Hazelwood in 1909. I'm interested to what happened to Frederick (possibly my grandfather). I believe he got a job on the railway and ended up in Martham where in 1911 he married Arletta Futter. Its proving quite hard to prove this as I know nothing between 1901 and 1911. On census he gave birth place as holt and marrage father Thomas William Knowles Game keeper. I have not been able to find the father and believe its made up. Any help from other knowles researchers gratefully appreciated.
Mike

[amondg]

Hunworth Norfolk baptisms transcribed by Norfolk Family History Society

Mother either Ellen or Ellen Maria Knowles, all children listed as illegitimate, no mention of purported father.
Edward William born 24 June 1884 bap 1 January 1885
Ethel Jane born 30 August 1886 bap 9 October 1887
Frederick John born 3 May 1889 bap 9 August 1896 (so he was 7)
May Alice born 6 May 1894 bap 9 August 1896
William Sidney born 13 May 1896 bap 9 August 1896

William Knowles married Margaret ? children baptized

*Ellen Maria daughter of William and Margaret Knowles baptized 22 July 1866 age 4 years.
Edward William bap 17 March 1865
Edward William bap 22 July 1866 age 2
Harriet Sophia bap 8 June 1870
Walter John bap 3 July 1870
Edith born 23 August 1878 bap 5 November 1882
Susannah born 6 May 1876 bap 5 November 1882

They have not transcribed the burials or marriages yet and family search for parish registers is not working

[amondg]

Ellen's son Frederick John Knowles doesn't look like he is your relative, he died WW1 on 22 April 1916 Mesopotamia born Hunworth Norfolk 2nd Bat Norfolk Regiment, Private Reg#18830. There is no mention of a wife.
Wasn't yours a Frederick William Knowles? 

[Mike Knowles]

Hi Amondg
It is strange where the John comes from! in the 1891 census when he first appears at his grandfathers with Ellen he is listed as Frederick S, but when you look at the original record there is no S or J.
I have only 4 records to go on regarding my grandfather Frederick William Knowles. in 1910 he joined the railway union in Spalding Linc's aged 23 as Frederick Knowles. In 1911 census he is boarding in martham (born in Holt) with john Dyball also a railway worker. Later that year he marries Arletta using Frederick William Knowles  24 years old. He gives his farther as Thomas William Knowles Game Keeper. I also have his death cert which says he dies 9/3/1936 aged 53. This would make Dob 1883 not 1888 from the other 3 records. I have looked at all 46 Knowles I can find in Holt area and have only found the 2 Fredericks. The other possibility is the 1883 Frederick born in Hunworth to Albert and Harriet Knowles. But he seemed too old. I have tried to trace Thomas William game keeper in Norfolk with no luck! My only living relatives could\would not give me much info, just that he was from north norfolk and other members of the family were also railway workers. I have found some hunworth born related Knowles also in the railway.  I believed this reluctance was because of the illegitimate birth and work house back ground. I have ordered the birth cert of Frederick John so should know more later this week, but it looks like neither of these may be my grandfather. I have traced 1400 relatives back 13 generations to 1550 with little trouble apart from Frederick. Thanks for the help
Mike