Harriet selina Lloyd

[thistlebay]

Hi and thanks to everyone

I have to admit I stand corrected on the 1891 CNS, I have no idea why, I must have had a head wobble the day I researched this, so thank you for pointing this out so that I can eliminate that one.

I have done so much research on this one my notes are quite confusing now.  I have just gone through them all again and  will try to write everything I have.  I  have some notes Osprey which are similar to some of what you give here but this name change is confusing me.

The source of all this info is sometimes not on my notes for some reason but info is there all the same so obviously found it somewhere.

I found a bapt 30/7/1846 in Ellesmere for Harriet with mother Eliza Lloyd
Another bapt 30/4/1848 St Leonard's Bridge north mother Mar A Lloyd
No father mentioned on either of these.

I searched for all the possible marriages of that time for Edward Lloyd

1841 to Elizabeth Huxley at Whitchurch Shrewsbury
1842 to Mary Palmer at St Chad Shrewsbury
1842 to Ann Whitehall St Mary Shrewsbury
16/12/1842 to Sophia Davies Ellesmere
1843 to Eliza Humphreys St George
15/12/1844 to Eliza Evans in Ellesmere
1847 to Sarah Guest at Great Ness
1848 to Mary A Owen Clun St George
1848 to Jemima Davies St Mary Club
1847 to Eliza Davies Oswestry
1851 to Margaret Davies St Mary Shrewsbury.

I would agree that Sophia is a good contender as it fits that the children are with their grandparents on 1851 but the name change is definely confusing me, why would she change her name?  But, if Sophia died and Edward married his sister that would make sense but I'm not sure the above Eliza is Thomas' daughter and moreover if Edward died then he couldn't have married the above Eliza in 1847.  Or could it be that Edward married Eliza Evans if Sophia died but her father still had all Edwards children with them on the 1851 even though only one belonged to Sophia their daughter.  I will look for a death for Sophia before 1844.

Although no parents recorded on the Eliza marr  I did find a birth for Eliza Evans in 1819 parents James and Harriot!

I noted down that I found a birth of Harriet on 30/7/1846 and put the the mother was Eliza no father mentioned then under this I have pointed to Eliza Evans!

Another thing I had written down but obvioußly not followed up is a birth of a Harriet Lloyd with mother Alice Davies in Shropshire.
There is a marriage of a Lloyd to a Alice J Davies in Shropshire but I haven't entered a date.
The reason I mention Alice is that Harriet bapt her 1st daughter Alice.  I thought this was Mary Alice but is just Alice.

I haven't got the bapt of Jane in 1843 but is her mother Sophia or Eliza? If it was Sophia then I would suggest she had died and Edward remarried.  I did find a marriage of Jane Lloyd though born 1843 married in Ellesmere to John Yeomans or William Green in 1867.

 I also looked at land and it would appear that the Lloyd land bordered the Davies land.

I als found a birth for Selina Lloyd 5/12/1847 but bpt in Swansea 9/1/1848. No parent details recorded by me.
Found same one on 1871 age 27 born Ludlow Stanton Lacy she is a boarder and pauper.
Can't find her on any other cns.!

On the 1841 CNS there are 3 Davies girls are in same place in Dogpole, St Mary Shrewsbury
Emma Davies age 30
Sophia Davies age 30
Eleanor Davies age 25. All milliners
But I think this may be too old to be Thomas Davies daugs

On 1861 in Willow at Oswestry there is
Eliza Poole Head single age 29 milliner b Salop
Mary Reynolds asst milliner age 22 b Mont
Selina Loyd single 17 b1844 b Salop Ellesmere
Susa Williams servant single 17 b Salop

1841 in Tetchile Ellesmere
Paragon Lloyd age 50 labourer
Ann age 60
Edward age 25
Mary age 15

Children I found for Thomas Davies

Was Sophia born 5/5/1813 I must have it somewhere but getting confused with all this research notes
Thomas 15/5/1814 Wem
Mary 8/6/1817 Wem
Richard 1824 Ellesmere
Sarah 24/2/1828 at Birch Meadow baptist Chapel
Rebecca 8/4/1830 as above
Charlotte 1/4/1832 Ellesmere
Anna 12/6/1833 Bird Meadow
James 28/5/1835 died 19/1/1841 Ellesmere
They lived at Dudleston Heath Ellesmere on 1841.

I think Ann Lloyd sister of Edward father Peregrine, married Thomas Davies sister of Sophia father Thomas on 12/5/1842

I think this is mostly all I have now on this family.  Somehow Harriet born in Lee/Salop/Ellesmere c1849 on the 3 CNS I have with her on them, father Edward not stated as deceased on Harriet marr cert (I know it doesn't always record this) his occ Farmer, ended up living in Manchester and married there in 1874.

Taking me ages to write all these as PC broken so working on tablet at the moment!! Frustration at its highest!
Many thanks all
Catherine

[osprey]

According to the parish entry for her marriage as Eliza Lloyd to George Fardoe in 1850, her father was Thomas Davies.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NN7H-GG7
It's unlikely that Edward would have married Sophia's sister as this would have been illegal at the time. Also, he died in 1845.

If you check the original for the baptism of Harriet with mother Eliza, the mother is noted as a widow.
Possibly she was Sophia Eliza/Eliza Sophia & used both.
Baptism of Jane shows mother as Sophia
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGGX-44G

Jane Lloyd married John Yeomans in 1867, her father noted as Edward Lloyd. One of the witnesses is Charlotte Fardoe.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NN7H-GG7
The marriage was in Myddle, not sure why Much Wenlock shows up.
 
The marriage date for Ann Lloyd & Thomas Davies is 1841, so just before the 1841 census where they are in the same house as Edward Lloyd's family. You can check the parish entry for the marriage on FindMyPast.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNQ3-1H9

The Selina born & baptised in Swansea was the daughter of William, a mason, & Ann
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1YS-JMQ

Edward Lloyd & Sophia Davies were the parents of Jane. Jane was with her grandparents in 1851 with Hannah & Harriet also noted as grand daughters to Thomas & Rebecca. Hannah & Harriet's mother noted as Eliza on their baptisms. They may have grown up thinking the same man was their father as they all had the same surname, even though he died before two of them were born.

 

[thistlebay]

Hi Osprey and thx for all of these links which I will look at.

Well I can't find a death for a Sophia Lloyd either so this must be correct that he definitely didn't marry again before he died.  Also Edward couldn't possibly have been Harriet s father in that time span so definitely illegitimate along with Hannah.

I also had a thought about the 3 grandchildren.  I always assumed they were sisters but this may not be true, maybe Eliza was another daughter of Thomas but just maybe the last two were her children and not Sophia s.

I can't fi nd another sophia for that area of that time.  Wish I could find all the children of Thomas and their bapt. In fact I don't think I found the bapt or birth of Sophia even.  Only her marr to Edward told me her father was thomas.

Going to check these links.  Was on this most of day yesterday trying to decided it all.

Regards
Catherine

[osprey]

possible for Eliza in the 1841 census in Pentrecoed in Ellesmere HO107/918/4 folio 7 pg 7 enumerated as female servant age 15 which, with the rounding down in 1841, would be right. I can't see a likely Sophia Davies in 1841.

 

[thistlebay]

Hi and thx again for your time.
OK just glaced again.  Found births of sophia bapt 19/5/1816 Dawley Magna parents Thomas and Theodosia only other ones are thomas 4/7/1813 Mary ? c1823
On the 1841 CNS  living in Hinstock High Heath Market Drayton is
Thomas Davies 70
Theodosia 60
Thomas  about 28
Sophia about 24
Mary about 17

Now the family with Thomas snr on the 1851 with wife Rebecca and grandchildren

Thomas 58
Rebecca 62
 Charlotte 17
Jane Harriet and Hannah

If this was Sophia b1816 father, Thomas  would be around 80 on the 1851 with grandchildren not 58 and that can't possibly be an enumeration error.  I'm now wondering if janes mother sophia was the daughter of this Thomas age 58 but then Thomas b1813 couldn't possibly have fathered a child so young so this has to be a different thomas to the one born 1813 to Thomas and Theodosia with Sophia as sister. It's all very confusing.

Don't know whether this is clear or not
Catherine

[osprey]

Sophia shows as of full age at marriage in 1842 so 21 plus. Not all baptisms are online.

There are baptisms to Thomas & Rebecca from 1814 & gaps between Mary in 1817 & Richard in 1824 & after Richard & before Charlotte. I don't the Baptist birth register entries are the same couple. Birch Meadow is in Broseley, some distance from the parish of Ellesmere
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/maplink?GR=SJ672019,CCC=SAL,PLACE=Broseley

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NTKQ-8L9

making the marriage of Thomas Davies & Rebecca Reeves in 1813 look likely
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N28G-QYM
Their ages vary according to the census, this could be Rebecca's baptism in 1792
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NT1V-Q93
& that of Thomas in 1790
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV7J-N93

Possible death reg for Rebecca
Rebecca Davies 83 march qtr 1879 Ellesmere vol 6a pg 622
This could be Thomas
Thomas Davies 78 sept qtr 1869 Ellesmere vol 6a pg 447