Author Topic: decipher and explanation please  (Read 1726 times)

Offline gortonboy

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decipher and explanation please
« on: Wednesday 18 November 15 20:04 GMT (UK) »
hi,,,this an extract from a Scottish marriage in 1903 in St Giles,Edingburgh. What does it say after  "warrant of sheriifs substitute? of the ???   And does the fact this marriage is by sheriffs warrant have any significance?   The details regarding his parentage ,,, does this mean his mother was called Jessie Currie at birth..she then married a Johnstone...and subsequently married David Robie?

i am struggling to find this family in the censuses.  Many thanks.  GB   ;)
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ecksdochter

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 18 November 15 21:01 GMT (UK) »
Hello gortonboy,
     Certificate says: Warrant / of Sheriff Substitute of the / Lothians and Peebles / dated / 16, September 1903.
     Mother's name is Jessie Currie Johnston. She later married David Robie. (If Johnston was a married name, her maiden name would also be listed, ie: Jessie Currie Johnston, M.S. ?, subsequently married to David Robie)
               Regards,     Dod.

       
"Scotsman! I am not a Scotsman -- I am a Fifer."

Offline gortonboy

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 18 November 15 21:39 GMT (UK) »
ok,,i understand the irregular marriage part now   ;)

Irregular marriages were frowned on by law and the churches, and couples who admitted to them were fined, but they had the same inheritance rights as regularly married couples, and their children were legitimate.  Although the Church of Scotland did not approve of irregular marriages, it tolerated them because it feared that if the law did not recognize such relationships, the couple would end up 'living in sin.'  The system was believed to protect women from unscrupulous men who might seduce them with promises of marriage or fake wedding ceremonies.  After registration was introduced, an irregular marriage could be registered if the couple presented themselves before a sheriff or magistrate, were 'convicted' as parties to an irregular marriage, and paid a fine.  Some found marriage by sheriff's warrant a cheaper and quicker alternative than all the expense of banns and a regular marriage ceremony.  Marriages established in court by a Decree of Declarator could also be registered, on production to the registrar of an extract of the Decree and payment of £1, but this was not common.  In fact, irregular marriages were infrequent in Scotland in the mid-nineteenth century, and fewer than 100 per year took place between 1855 and 1870.  After that, the numbers rose steadily, and then rapidly in the early twentieth century, until they accounted for over 12% of all Scottish marriages in 1914.  They remained at this level until the Second World War.  Contrary to the national myth, most took place not on the Scottish border, but in the larger towns.  This may have been due to a decline in the influence of the churches, or to the relative cheapness of irregular marriages, but it also reflected the growing number of divorces.  Since many churches would not remarry a divorced person, and there was no civil marriage in Scotland until 1939, couples in this position had no alternative but to marry by sheriff's warrant.  From 1916, irregular marriages were no longer technically an offence, and in 1939 marriage by sheriff's warrant ended, to be replaced by a civil ceremony in the registrar's office.
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline gortonboy

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 18 November 15 21:39 GMT (UK) »
thank you DOD  ;D
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline gortonboy

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 18 November 15 21:43 GMT (UK) »
Robert Johnston married Isabella Edgar in 1903....they were both 21...he was a shoemaker.  Can find Isabella,,,but cant get a handle on Roberts family,,or any census info.
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 19 November 15 00:45 GMT (UK) »
Blimey  ;D  Your #3 reply is a tornedo of a sum up! On a gentler summary  ::) see also www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/marriage/

Have you looked for Robert and Isabella in 1911 to get an indication of his birth place? Have you looked for his death cert to get (re)confirmation of his details?

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 19 November 15 01:56 GMT (UK) »
Think I have a thread, but complicated to explain in a few posts  :-[

Just some details/fact for follow up that I will list here for you now...

There is a marriage for a Jessie Currie Johnstone to an Andrew Steel in 1909 in Colvend Kirkcudbrightshire. Her parents show as a James Johnstone, millwright and a Jane Currie. Both deceased. No obvious family witnesses. She is aged on this as 37 and single. She died in Kirkcudbright in 1920 I think, showing as born c. 1863.

In reality, I think this is her birth here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYPN-9ZR

This is likely her 1861 entry:

James Johnston 46
Jane Johnston 41
Andrew Johnston 19
Jane Johnston 16
Robert Johnston 13
James Johnston    11
Agness Johnston 9
William Johnston 7
Elizabeth Johnston 5
Jessie Johnston 3
Annie Johnston 1
John Gibson 21
William Mcknaught 20

Address: Ar Bridge, Tinwald Dumfrieshire

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 19 November 15 02:01 GMT (UK) »
1871, and Jessie with paternal grandmother?

Jane Johnstone 79 widow b. Tundergarth, Dumfriesshire
Jessie Johnstone 13 granddaugher b. Tinwald
Ann Johnstone 11 granddaugher b. Tinwald

Address: Ar Bridge, Tinwald Dumfrieshire

Back home for 1881:

James Johnston 66 carpenter b. Carlaverock, Dumfriesshire
Jean Johnston 60 b.Holywood, Dumfriesshire
Jessie Johnston 22 b. Tinwald, Dumfriesshire
Effie Johnston 18 b. Tinwald, Dumfriesshire
Thomas Murray 17 servant
Jane Dick 16 visitor
Mary Rogerson 13 visitor

Address: A E Bridge Cottage, Tinwald

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: decipher and explanation please
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 19 November 15 02:05 GMT (UK) »
Reason 1881 interested me, is that I thought it might connect with this possible entry for 1891 with a Robert Johnston that we are looking for:

Effie Johnstone 26 Lodging House - Keeper b. Tinwald, Dumfriesshire
Agnes J Johnstone 17 niece b. Tinwald, Dumfriesshire
Robert Johnstone 9 nephew b. Tinwald, Dumfriesshire
Lizzie Johnstone 8 niece b. Tinwald, Dumfriesshire
Peter Drummond MA: Mb: C M 24 General Medical Practitioner lodger

Address: High Street Dickson House No 2, Moffat Dumfrieshire

And there I stop for now...

Monica  :)
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk