An Aussie seeking advice on UK information please

[davidft]

My difficulty is using the information I have from DNA - if someone matches me, I still have to work out how they match, and it seems it will involve a huge amount of checking the many ancestors of matches to see if I can find someone who may be him. But I think you are right that I need to narrow the search down a bit by getting a relative or two to test. Thanks again.

In respect of this there is a member here who does quite a bit on DNA (has her own project). Two articles that may be of interest.

http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/tracking-dna-segments-through-time-and.html

http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Identical_by_descent.

In one of her posts DevonCruwys, not sure if it was on here or in her blog, posted the study of a man who had tested a lot of his relatives and so could identify for some segments which segments on which chromosome related to which ancestor. It was complete with a diagram that explained it well. This may be a way for you to go and if DevonCruwys sees this post she may be able to recall the post and give you a link to it

[Eric Hatfield]

So don't discount people just because they match at the same point.   If you find someone who matches at that point and they don't match your third cousin, then you know that match is via your mother

That is a good point, thanks for reminding me.

It is only as good as everyone's trees.  We're looking for a mystery ancestor too.   I thought our tree was pretty good, but when you get down to the nitty gritty it's not.  All you need is an unknown ancestor, plus a gt-grandfather for whom you've found no records prior to immigration, no birth or baptism record for his mother-in-law etc ....lots of holes.   But you are also relying on the accuracy of the trees of others.

The problem I am grappling with is this. Most people have some knowledge of their tree and their surnames, so it is "only" a matter of finding a connection between their tree and someone else's. But I don't know anything apart from the DNA matches, so I can't look for a connection directly. As far as I can see, I have to look at every match, starting with the best ones, and try to find someone in their tree, or the siblings of those in their tree, who could possibly be my unknown grandfather, and then try to prove that.

So I am slowly try to trace lines from a match who lives nearby and seems to have some geographical proximity, and who has a well worked out family tree. I have to go back 6 generations to where her family tree has 32 pairs and trace every child and show that they lived and died somewhere that means they couldn't have been my grandfather, because I at least know where he lived for the second part of his life and where and when he died. But with most families having about 6 children, that is a mammoth task, and I have barely scratched the surface.

It seems to me that I am like an adoptee searching for an unknown biological parent, except the connection I am looking for is 2 generations further back. So I am just checking to see if anyone has any clues that will make my task easier.

It's a waiting game.   More and more people are starting to test, so over time you will be able to get a genetic picture of him which hopefully will lead to the corresponding paperwork.

Yes, this is my hope. I don't have high expectations, but something may turn up, and I have to try whatever I can. Thanks.

[Eric Hatfield]

Hi David, thanks for those links. I found them very interesting and useful.

[scanning]

Hi Eric,

Regarding your testing, you mention that you are looking for your maternal Grandfather. The matches that will be of most interest will be X DNA matches. These will only be on your maternal line.

X DNA is passed from both parents to their daughters, but only from the mother to the sons. Did Olive Blanche McDonald have any siblings? If she had a sister, it would be good to get a female line descendant to test as any X matches in common could be eliminated. Alternatively a maternal Uncle would be good as well, if you have one that could test?

The problem with X DNA though appears to be that segments can be passed on with little or no mixing which can mean that X matches are more distant than standard matches. There is a good explanation about the X Chromosome at http://dna-explained.com/2012/09/27/x-marks-the-spot/ and another at http://linealarboretum.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/phasing-x-chromosome.html

Hope your Christmas day isn't too hot 

[Eric Hatfield]

Hey Scanning, thanks so much for that comment. Of course I knew about XX = female and XY = male, but would you believe I have never thought through the implications as you have outlined them. I had considered doing a mtDNA test to try to get extra information on my maternal grandmother, but had deferred until I had done more work on the autosomal results, but your suggestion is really helpful thanks. I will look into it.

Olive didn't have any siblings that we know of because her mother was an unmarried teen who possibly gave a false name (much stigma back in 1891) and she was adopted out, so we have no idea of any possible siblings - that's part of the reason I'm doing this DNA investigation. The only relative I have to test is a female cousin who has agreed to test, but of course any DNA in common could come from either of my mum's parents, but that's OK because both are a mystery.

It's now midnight on Xmas Eve, and Christmas is shaping to be cool, overcast and mild, which is welcome. I hope your weather is good - a white Christmas would of course be what I would imagine!!

[Eric Hatfield]

Hi again, SCanning, just a quick update.

I have about 700 matches in FTDNA, and about 9000 lines of matches in my chromosome browser spreadsheet, which works out at an average of about 400 matches per chromosome. But only 6 of them are X DNA matches, and none of them very large - the largest is 8.8 cM (she is listed as 4th-remote cousin). But all her ancestors seems to come from Ireland, so that tells me something.

I see that the X chromosome is about medium length, so I would have expected a few more matches than this, perhaps indicating that most of my matches are from my father's side.

This has opened up a few new paths for me, so thanks again.

[Seaton Smithy]

I see that the X chromosome is about medium length, so I would have expected a few more matches than this, perhaps indicating that most of my matches are from my father's side.

Hi Eric

Keep in mind it's possible that autosomal matches without an X-DNA match can come from your mother's side as well.  For example you could not get any X-DNA from your mother's father's father - and any earlier line with two males in a row.  I found it helpful to create an X-DNA only tree so that I could visualise where an X match could or could not possibly come from.

[Eric Hatfield]

Hi. Thanks for your thoughts. The idea of an X DNA tree is an interesting one, thanks.