William WINTER and Jane LEWIS

[Sue53]

1901C       RG13/28  F 12       P 15

Still at 172 Portabello Rd.

  Elizabeth Mitchead abt 1855  Chelsea, London, England Servant  Kensington  London   
 Annie Winter abt 1850  Hereford, Herefordshire, England Wife  Kensington  London   
 Dorothy G Winter abt 1885  Kensington, London, England Daughter  Milliners apprentice Kensington  London   
  William Winter abt 1840  Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales Head  Draper Kensington  London 

 

[Sue53]

1901C    RG13/192    F112    P8 
I think this may be your Edward. The 1901C is free on Ancestry.co.uk until the end of this month.
41 Northampton St.     Occupation   Hot water filter. ??
 Edward Winter abt 1879  Islington, London, England Head  Islington  London   
 Rosina Winter abt 1880  Islington, London, England Wife  Islington  London   
  Rosina A Winter abt 1900  Islington, London, England Daughter  Islington  London   
 

Hope this a help, Good luck with the rest.  Sue.

[fyremoon]

Hi

I think you have likely identified the couple in the 1881 census, but I think the marriage you found is unlikely - if Jane was from Hackney and William was originally from Pembrokeshire, but in London by 1871 with a drapers business, I think it is unlikely they would have travelled to Haverfordwest to marry.  This is possibly more likely a marriage

Marriages Dec 1871
Lewis  Jane    Poplar  1c 1375   
Marrion  Robert     Poplar  1c 1375   
Waite  Mary Ann     Poplar  1c 1375   
Winter  William     Poplar  1c 1375   

EC

Oh EC, thank you SO much!!  This is exactly the puzzle that was plaguing me - why on earth would they go back to Wales to marry (didnt' folk more often marry near/in the bride's parish) and if so, why wouldn't they have gone to Tenby instead.  Also, their first son William was born in 1874 (have found a couple of birth indexes for William H, not sure which one) in London, but the haverfordwest marriage didnt' take place until December of that year.  I think you're right, and this is more likely my couple's marriage... well... the London William and Jane couple anyway - are they *my* couple? I don't yet know.  But THANK YOU!~

Leigh

[fyremoon]

Oh Sue thanks so much for all that info!!  You've been quite busy!  I'm so pleased to have something to go on.  We dont' know if any of this is my family, but it's a great start!

You know, in teh 1901 census where William has remarried an Annie - well I remembered that there was an Annie Arden in earlier censuses working for the family as a servant, and wondered if William might have married her.  I found this:

Arden, Annie
1899   December   Marriages   Kensington   Greater London London Middlesex
Browne, Frederic
1899   December   Marriages   Kensington   Greater London London Middlesex
Summers, Eliza
1899   December   Marriages   Kensington   Greater London London Middlesex
Winter, William
1899   December   Marriages   Kensington   Greater London London Middlesex
 

so it would appear I'm correct and the Annie Winter in 1901 was the long-time employee!

Also of great interest is the Edward Winter you found married to Rosina.  If he is indeed *MY* Edward that's intriguing because my fellow came out here and married in 1910 and went on to have a family.  Apparently he was quite tight-lipped about his past and didn't keep in touch with folk 'back home' - I wonder if this is why!!?  Due to catch up with family next week and will certainly be asking if they know anything!

I couldnt' access the first link you sent me with Edward's birth details but got the details from your post and also searched freeBDM myself wtih teh same result.  Can you tell me what details are on a birth certificate of that era?

Thanks again, for so much help, I appreciate it!

Leigh

[ec]

Hi fyremoon

If you get the birth cert of one of the children it will give you the fathers name and occupation, the mothers maiden name and also the address of birth and address of the informant (usually mother or father) at the time of the registration.

Given that you have a William and an Edward and these are not uncommon names, I think I would be tempted to go for the birth cert for Daisy - this is easily identifiable on FREEBMD -

Births Dec 1875
Winter  Daisy Marion    Kensington  1a 135

Do you have Edwards marriage cert in Australia - did it say he was a widow or single (not familiar with the format of Australian certs)

ec

[fyremoon]

HI ec

Yes I have Edward's marriage cert. and it states that he was a bachelor.  It states his place of birth as London, England, and his occupation as 'Mercher' I dont' know what that is, but I do that he opened a menswear store in Sydney (which I haven't been able to find anything about yet, frustrating) so I'm thinking that perhaps it means 'Mercer'.  It says he's 32 (this is in Nov 1910) and give his parents names (that's where I found them out) and his father's occupation as 'Draper' - which is why I'm inclined to believe the Portobello Rd Winters are his parents... although *that* Edward's birth year, 1877, is a little off from his marriage cert. age, but I don't know what the protocol was back then.

I like your idea of going for Daisy's birth certificate.  That should show if it was a Jane Lewis or some other Jane right?

Leigh

[Sue53]

Hi again Leigh,
  I'm glad I was able to help. Would love to know the outcome of this when you find out. Happy hunting   .  Sue.

[ec]

Hi

then.

I like your idea of going for Daisy's birth certificate. That should show if it was a Jane Lewis or some other Jane right?

Exactly - you will get the mothers maiden name and also you wouldn't be wondering if you have the right cert (which would be a possibility if you went for either of the boys).

I can't find any records of a deth for Rosina Winter (either mother or child) before 1910 (although 1903/04/05/06/07 are not complete on FreeBMD).  Obviously if you get the Daisy cert and that checks out then your next step could be to try the Edward Winter/Rosina Fuller marriage - depends how sure you are that he is a possibility - Hot Water Fitter to Mercer is a big change/

BTW - the 1891 transcription given has an error - Daisy was 15 not 5 (I have checked the image)

ec

[fyremoon]

HI sue and ec!

I'll certainly keep you posted, you've both helped me greatly.

EC, yeah, I figured there was a 1 missing from Daisy's age   I'll try for her certificate and go from there.  As for the Edward/Rosina marriage.. well.. I'm not really too sure about it - especially as it states in teh 1901 C that *that* Edward was born in Islington and the occupation is radically different.   Will see what comes of Daisy's certificate.

Thanks again

Leigh