Author Topic: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807  (Read 5718 times)

Offline Fordyce

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Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« on: Sunday 06 December 15 23:28 GMT (UK) »
James Duff & Helen Smith had a son Alexander born 9 Oct 1807 Auchindachy, Keith.
James Duff is one of the Duffs of Hillockhead, Glass, descendant of Adam Duff of Clunybeg.

Does anyone know what became of this Alexander Duff? Or can offer suggestions?

An Alexander Duff, who became a master cooper in Muir of Rhynie, married Isabella Gordon in 1834, appeared in the 1841 census age 35, at least nine years senior to his wife, and had died before 1851. It's possible he died in Correction Wynd, Aberdeen 16 Apr 1842, age recorded as 35, because his wife and family were in Old Machar, Aberdeen, until her death in 1888, she scratching a living as washerwoman, dressmaker and domestic servant.

It's been suggested elsewhere that this Alexander Duff h/o Isobel Gordon is Auchindachy's son, but I'm going to need convincing with some explicit evidence that this isn't just guesswork.

My interest in this is that the father of Helen Duff, who is my gtgtgdmother born illeg in 1835 in Banff, is an Alexander Duff who, according to Kirk Session minutes in both Banff and Huntly, is this Muir of Rhynie cooper Alexander Duff. Helen Duff spun a yarn to her grandchildren in the 1910s that she was related to the Dukes of Fife. Much of the story is fanciful, but maybe - just maybe - a little kernel of truth lurking is in there.

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #1 on: Monday 07 December 15 00:30 GMT (UK) »
You don't say whether you have found an Alexander in 1851 which would give his occupation?

If so, was he living near to where Helen was born?

Annie

ADDED.....This could possibly rule out his pre 1851 death?
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #2 on: Monday 07 December 15 00:36 GMT (UK) »
Not sure if this is your post....

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.scotland.ban.general/552/mb.ashx

Seems a bit of a change from a Master Cooper to a Labourer?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Fordyce

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #3 on: Monday 07 December 15 09:49 GMT (UK) »
Yes. That's my post - I've been searching a long time! Helen Duff stated her father was Alexander Duff "labourer (deceased)" when she married 27 Feb 1869, and that was the only evidence I then had about her father's occupation - and even then it's only her say-so that he was a labourer (or, indeed, deceased).

I later found that Banff Kirk Session of 22 Jun 1835 records that Helen Duff's mother, Janet Cruickshank, accused "Alexander Duff cooper at present in Huntly" of being the father, which he had admitted in a letter to the Kirk Session, promising "to satisfy everything that was required both as respected to the church, and the future maintenance of the child".

Even later, I discovered the Huntly Kirk Session, on 11 Dec 1837, found "Alexander Duff, Cooper, Muir of Rhynie, guilty of antenuptial fornication.". This Alexander Duff can only be the Alexander Duff Cooper who married Isobel Gordon in Huntly 25 Dec 1834, whose first child, also named Alexander, was born in Huntly and bapt 23 Jan 1836, whose second child John was born in Moor of Rhynie on 9 Dec 1837, and who all appear in the 1841 census in Muir of Rhynie the father being "Alexander Duff Cooper", age recorded as 35 (and not born in Aberdeenshire) against wife's recorded age of 25 (actually 27).

Even later still, I found Isobella Gordon [sic] in 1851, now widowed and with family, in 1851 in Old Machar; she died 3 Apr 1888 in Woodside, Aberdeen, husband recorded as Alexander Duff Cooper (Master).

There is no record of Helen Duff's birth in Banff - I can infer Apr-Jun 1835 from censuses which fits well with the KS. It would seem that Alexander Duff left Janet Cruickshank to her own devices and married Isobel Gordon, perhaps not realising Janet was with his child. Whatever the precise circumstances, one cannot argue anything other than that Isobel Gordon's husband is the father of Helen Duff.

So, the identity of this Alexander Duff? The 1841 census implies he was born 1801-1806, in all likelihood in Banffshire, but this cannot be taken as gospel, only a guide. One suggestion recorded in the only Ancestry tree for Alexander Duff & Isobel Gordon is that Isobel Gordon's husband is son of Auchindachy's James Duff & Helen Smith. He was born 9 Oct 1807, and thus should have been recorded as 30 in 1841. Even so, given Helen Duff's story-telling, it's a suggestion worth pursuing. If someone knows what happened to Auchindachy's Alexander Duff then of course this suggestion can be discounted. Hence my query.

I hope that clarifies the situation. Now, if anyone can suggest other parents for this Alexander Duff.....


Online Forfarian

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #4 on: Monday 07 December 15 20:58 GMT (UK) »
It sounds quite logical but don't trust anything you find on Ancestry. Use it as a pointer for your own research, not as proven fact.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline DonM

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 December 15 00:14 GMT (UK) »
Fordyce,

There are 6 born in Banff during this period and even if you cut out the three variations you still have 2 others to consider.

If you want to weed out the Cooper go the British Newspaper Archives, you don't need to be a member for a quick scan but Aberdeen and Dundee are online for this era and you might find your Cooper mentioned under family notices or perhaps advertisement or article.

And then as a Master Cooper you would need to find out who he apprenticed under and who sponsored him which in many case is the father. In fact there is a very good chance that this Cooper is a son of a Cooper.  Perhaps it can be found in one of the OPR's below.

Don

23/06/1802 DUFF ALEXANDER ROBERT DUFF/ELISABETH GORDON M MORTLACH /BANFF 162/00 0010 0329
18/10/1807 DUFF ALEXANDER JAMES DUFF/HELEN SMITH M KEITH /BANFF 159/00 0030 0399
01/04/1809 DUFF ALEXANDER WILLIAM DUFF/MARGARET CHRISTIE M KEITH /BANFF 159/00 0030 0417
01/12/1804 DUFFAS ALEXANDER GEORGE DUFFAS/MARGARET WINSTER M KEITH /BANFF 159/00 0030 0362
23/03/1804 DUFFES ALEXANDER GEORGE DUFFES/ISOBEL FORBES M DESKFORD /BANFF 151/00 0010 0411
01/12/1804 DUFFUS ALEXANDER GEORGE DUFFUS/MARGARET WINSTER M KEITH /BANFF 159/00 0030 0362
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Offline Fordyce

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 08 December 15 21:22 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the ideas Don. It spurred me on to look a little further.

Robert Duff & Elisabeth Gordon: Tackled them previously! Whilst this family does have tight connections with Rhynie, they can be ruled out: their son Alexander Duff died in 1821 age 19 - see Libindx NM041447 for his MI.

James Duff & Helen Duff - the subject of my query of course. I've now obtained the Will of James Duff and this records that ".... £80 or thereby secured by [my late wife Helen Smith] from the Estate of the deceased Alexander Duff my son....". It's clear to me that that son is not the Rhynie Cooper - anything he had would have been left to his wife and family, not to his mother. What this does show to me is that Auchindachy's son Alexander died some time before 1856 (date of Will), but survived to adulthood to amass a decent amount of money; I also infer he never married. I haven't been able to find out when Helen Smith died. There doesn't seem to be a Will or an Inventory for wife or son, but I now discount this family. Which answers my query in its narrowest sense.

William Duff & Margaret Christie: there's no evidence to support them being the parents. William was a farmer (family MI is Ke(O)588 per Libindx) and son Alex born too late to be 35 in 1841. Cannot get any further than that on son Alex.

I have no reason to think the surname Duffus, distinct in its own right, would be involved.
- Duffus/Forbes: son was illeg; father became a farmer at Knappycausie, married Sophia Cumming. Again, no evidence to support them being the parents.
- Duffus/Winster: nothing found.

Re being a Master Cooper - that's only on his wife's say-so 40 years after his death in 1888, and seems to me a typical example of retrospective exaggeration! Their ag-lab son gave his father as cooper upon his 1st marriage in 1864 and promoted him to master cooper upon his second marriage in 1899. I do take the point that in 1841 it does seem that there are really only the occupations 'cooper' and 'journeyman cooper', never 'master cooper', the implication being obvious.

I can only guess he learned his trade in Banff (when his daughter Helen Duff was born and her mother had lived for several years). I cannot find any suitable candidate.

And there's nothing in the Aberdeen Journal (via 19th Century Gales) that I can find of him carrying on his trade in Muir of Rhynie.

Having said all that, there's no reason why Alexander Duff shouldn't have been illegitimate and baptised under a different surname!

So, there we have it. Another 'lead' comes to nothing.

Offline J11

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 09 December 15 10:13 GMT (UK) »

I later found that Banff Kirk Session of 22 Jun 1835 records that Helen Duff's mother, Janet Cruickshank, accused "Alexander Duff cooper at present in Huntly" of being the father, which he had admitted in a letter to the Kirk Session, promising "to satisfy everything that was required both as respected to the church, and the future maintenance of the child".

Even later, I discovered the Huntly Kirk Session, on 11 Dec 1837, found "Alexander Duff, Cooper, Muir of Rhynie, guilty of antenuptial fornication.". This Alexander Duff can only be the Alexander Duff Cooper who married Isobel Gordon in Huntly 25 Dec 1834, whose first child, also named Alexander, was born in Huntly and bapt 23 Jan 1836, whose second child John was born in Moor of Rhynie on 9 Dec 1837, and who all appear in the 1841 census in Muir of Rhynie the father being "Alexander Duff Cooper", age recorded as 35 (and not born in Aberdeenshire) against wife's recorded age of 25 (actually 27).


Antenuptial Fornication was fornication before a marriage.  Surely the Huntley Kirk Session would have known that the Alexander Duff , cooper you mention was married with two children thus in no position to contract a marriage.  If no marriage was in the offing or possible it was straightforward fornication.  Does the entry mention with whom or where the antenuptial fornication took place.  Trades and names often ran in families.  It could be that there was more than one cooper called Alexander Duff in Huntley - cousin, uncle, etc. in a family business.

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Re: Alexander Duff, Auchindachy, Keith, born 1807
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 09 December 15 14:01 GMT (UK) »
Antenuptial Fornication was fornication before a marriage.  Surely the Huntley Kirk Session would have known that the Alexander Duff , cooper you mention was married with two children thus in no position to contract a marriage. 

True, but it wasn't unusual for the Session to take a little while to catch up with sinners. He and hos wife could have been taken to task for fornication that had taken place a couple of years earlier. The KS almost certainly names the wife with whom he had committed antenuptial fornication, because obviously she was exactly as guilty as he was.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.