Coat of Arms & Burke's Landed Gentry, 1965

[StanleysChesterton]

I am wondering where this coat of arms originates from.

Mary Stanley (b 1762) is daughter of Joseph Stanley (1728-1789) http://www.thepeerage.com/p41070.htm#i410696
Mary married William Wentworth and had a family.

Mary's brother (also Joseph Stanley, 1769-1856) outlived all his siblings, but left his vast fortune to Mary's downline IF they changed their name back to Stanley.  Mary's son (William, 1793-1832) had died, so it went to the next generation (Sidney, 1828-1896).  So they huffed and puffed a bit, but we all like a bit of money, so double-barrelled the name to Wentworth-Stanley, claimed the inheritance from (great uncle) Joseph and bought a nice big house.

At this point in time the newly wealthy and double-barrelled Wentworth-Stanleys appear to have joined their coats of arms together.  They wrote, as you do, to the Queen - and it was all legal/agreed.

My question is: How come this Stanley family "suddenly" started having/using the Stanley arms?

ThePeerage gives as a source Burke's Landed Gentry, 1965, Volume 1, page 650 - but I don't happen to have a copy of this book on my bookcase here *grins*. 

Can anybody shed any light on the question of:  What is the source of this particular Stanley family having a claim to use the Stanley coat of arms? 

Cheers.

For the record: Am I related? I doubt it, but who knows.... I am on the quest to find somebody else with the surname within 2 miles, so was wondering if Joseph (1728-1789) had any brothers, that's how I got caught up in this lot.... I had to "find out more about them" in order to eliminate them and understand their movements.

[KGarrad]

I'm not sure what exactly your question is?

If Joseph Stanley was entitled to bear arms, then his daughter could use the arms (on a lozenge), and have these arms impaled with her husband's.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement_%28heraldry%29

[StanleysChesterton]

I'm not sure what exactly your question is?

If Joseph Stanley was entitled to bear arms, then his daughter could use the arms (on a lozenge), and have these arms impaled with her husband's.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement_%28heraldry%29

Sorry if I worded it with confusion. 

I could see from ThePeerage that Mary was using the arms, but I couldn't see Burke's to see if she had entitlement via her father - and, so, who the heck he was (in the big scheme of things/where he came from).

I guess my question was whether she did get it from Joseph's entitlement .... rather than being "scooped up" in some strange twist of being married to Mr Wentworth.

I know that Mary, alone, as a girl, couldn't have .... and I haven't seen any evidence that anybody else in her family (Joseph with the fortune, or their father Joseph) was using it. 

I don't know how it works, in the bigger scheme of things - so wondered if Mr Wentworth had some ability to "scoop up and use" arms of the name by some strange workings ....

So, you're saying that as the couple could join up the arms, then Mary's father must have DEFINITELY been a direct downline of the originator of those arms.

From that... my next area of vague interest would then be: so what is Joseph senior's upline and sideways line.  I started off trying to find a Samuel, discovered Joseph (senior), so then wondered if Joseph & Samuel were in any way brothers.... and that's how I found Mary and then down to the arms being allowed.

Not sure I made that much clearer either

I know what I mean

[Yonks Ago]

Hi there,

It's my belief that a "Coat of Arms" is given to one person " a man" ..not a family..if that "one person" has no son's then the Coat of Arms is not passed down.....if he has son's it goes to oldest son....the second/third /fourth and so on son's make a small change each on the father's Coat of Arms.

This I was told at a Genealogy Lecture and have since read the same
http://www.ancestralfindings.com/real-truth-behind-coats-arms-family-crests/
this link may help

cheers
Yonks

[KGarrad]

The College of Arms explains this far better than I can!

http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/resources/the-law-of-arms

And Yonks Ago is quite correct!
There is no single coat-of-arms that applies to every Stanley family.
Every grant of arms applies to a single person, and his descendants may use the arms.

However, women, as well as men, may use the arms under certain circumstances

[pinefamily]

When you say "the" Stanley coat of arms, do you realize there is more than one? Finding the origin of the particular arms used by Joseph Stanley could help you in your quest to place the family.

[StanleysChesterton]

When you say "the" Stanley coat of arms, do you realize there is more than one? Finding the origin of the particular arms used by Joseph Stanley could help you in your quest to place the family.

Yes, I was struggling to get everything out, without it being a rambling big volume.

I know that one set of arms is given to one man and then his (male) descendants.  When Mary's husband joined arms of her surname to his I realised that, somehow, Mary's ancestors must have had to right to those - but there was nowhere where I could see her upline family tree back to the originator....

I was checking that there wasn't some other way they could've started using them.  That, in fact, Mary's father must've been the direct line from the originator of the arms.

You'd think that these people with arms would have an easily checkable/traceable, online/visible, clear family tree so you could see exactly where those arms came from. 

The Question:
I guess my simple question might've been: Does anybody have Burke's?  What does Burke's Landed Gentry, 1965, Volume 1, page 650 say  about this family? 

My question was buried in fluff.

[KGarrad]

Just a bit confused here?

The Mary Stanley you referred to in your original post, you linked to ThePeerage.com.

That Mary Stanley married Daniel Wentworth?

Were you perhaps thinking of William Wentworth, 2nd Earl of Strafford (1626-1695) who married Lady Henrietta Mary Stanley, daughter of James Stanley, 7th Earl of Derby?

James Stanley was known as "Yn Stanlagh Mooar" ("The Great Stanley"), and was Lord of Mann on The Isle of Man. Hence my interest!

[StanleysChesterton]

Just a bit confused here?

The Mary Stanley you referred to in your original post, you linked to ThePeerage.com.

That Mary Stanley married Daniel Wentworth?

Were you perhaps thinking of William Wentworth, 2nd Earl of Strafford (1626-1695) who married Lady Henrietta Mary Stanley, daughter of James Stanley, 7th Earl of Derby?

James Stanley was known as "Yn Stanlagh Mooar" ("The Great Stanley"), and was Lord of Mann on The Isle of Man. Hence my interest!

Yes, the Mary that married Daniel Wentworth. 

Joseph Stanley had a son and daughter (among others) Mary and Joseph.
Mary married Daniel Wentworth and had children.
Joseph (Mary's brother) never married/had no children, so left all his money to Mary/Daniel, but they HAD to change their surname to Stanley to inherit it.

Mary/Daniel were dead.
Their son had died.
Mary/Daniel's grandson Sidney Wentworth was therefore the heir.
So he changed his name to Sidney Wentworth-Stanley, to inherit.
Sidney Wentworth-Stanley then applied to join the Stanley coat of arms with the Wentworth coat of arms - and got approval for that.

ThePeerage has Mary Stanley and Daniel Wentworth listed on its site, but just points the reader to Burke's Landed Gentry, page 650, presumably for further details of Mary's upline/the source of the Stanley arms being used.  The arms being used here are the blue/yellow ones: https://static.tradebit.com/usr/heraldics/pub/9001/Stanley--Irish-Crest.jpg

Wentworth-Stanley combined used the Stanley as a 1/4 and the Wentworth as a 1/4.  I'll find a link for that.

The newspaper said:

Whitehall, July 19th, 1856.
The Queen has been pleased to give and grant unto Sidney Wentworth, of the town of Cambridge, in the county of Cambridge, gentleman, only surviving child of William Wentworth, late of the town of Cambridge and of Mary his wife, sister of Joseph Stanley, late of the town ..... Her royal licence and authority that he and his issue may ..... bear the arms of Stanley quarterly with those of Wentworth, such arms being first duly exemplified according to the laws of arms, and recorded in the Herald's Office ....

There is a description of the arms (first entry at top of page) in this online book: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=X8UujEDqn9oC&pg=PA963&lpg=PA963&dq=Stanley+arms+quarterly+Wentworth&source=bl&ots=5R0dan7fgp&sig=Xr4iQONQkk8xpbJXwMRww0lcdIM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKv8mxnOXJAhUG7BQKHVp4Cy0Q6AEIMDAD#v=onepage&q=Stanley%20arms%20quarterly%20Wentworth&f=false