Author Topic: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK  (Read 8994 times)

Offline CathrynJ

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Re: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK
« Reply #45 on: Saturday 30 December 17 15:55 GMT (UK) »
Dear Laura,
I am trying to send you my email address, but its bouncing back, rootschat says your message inbox is now full. I will put it here for a couple of days then delete it as I don't want it picked up by spammers. Let me know when you have it.

[email removed]

Good wishes,
Rose

Offline Magiclaura

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Re: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 31 December 17 07:10 GMT (UK) »
Just written to your email rose

Offline Magiclaura

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Re: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK
« Reply #47 on: Sunday 31 December 17 07:15 GMT (UK) »
Email bounced back!


Eugene had a daughter called Hannah Marie who first married a Frederick Ambrose Sanders who died after one year of marriage and then she married Samuel Edmund bark. They had Mary Ann Phoebe Julie Bark who eventually gave birth to my grandma julia Joyce.

My grandma was a hoarder (think those extreme hoarders you see on tv) and so we had negative collection of things left behind but no names or dates. The self portrait that Eugene did was for his daughter on the eve of her wedding to Joesph (surname unknown) of the running horses inn in mickleham. That wedding didn’t happen but we don’t know anymore than that.

No info I’m afraid on the guys you are searching for. I remember a story that the le forts were very successful and lived in a grand house with a servant or two.... only later Ernestine was a servant herself which was surprisingly when from a wealthy family but I am unsure if that is factual or just a story....

Offline CathrynJ

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Re: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 31 December 17 10:30 GMT (UK) »
Dear Laura,

How exciting to hear all of this, I love it when new stories come from the past. I have emailed you, I hope you get it.

With good wishes,
Rose


Offline CathrynJ

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Re: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK
« Reply #49 on: Saturday 08 June 19 22:27 BST (UK) »
A few updates on this thread, the summary of what is known is below:

I have now gained some new information finally from someone who recalls "Reginald Hamilton".

He called himself "Rex" apparently, which makes sense of why my Grandmother Daphne called her children Hamilton and Rex (the latter being my father). He also had a large car, and a boat on the thames "indicating he was quite wealthy". This was recalled by someone who met him when she was young (she was born in the 1930's).

On the marriage certificate of my grandmother Daphne - in 1933 - Reginald / Rex was described as a "Stockbroker".

The previous summary below:

Summarising here the outcomes of this huge long thread

And continuing the search to find "Reginald Hamilton"

Marie M Saunders (on 1911 aged 16 and living in Maida Vale daughter of Ernestine) gives birth it seems (tbc) to 3 children:

Daphne Marguerite Hamilton b1911 Paddington
Stewart E/R Hamilton b1914 Eastbourne Sussex
Anthony P Hamilton b1916 Willseden Middlesex

Daphne (my grandmother): birth certificate lists Reginald Hamilton, flannel manufacturers traveller as father.

Birth certificates are on order Anthony (will order Stewarts too later) to confirm if Reginald / Marie are listed as parents as for Daphne.

1939 census sees Anthony P Hamilton "Occupation traveller" living in Uckfield with Ernestine, mother of Marie. In the 1960's we find Anthony living back in Maida Vale with Stewart.

Back in 1939 - Marie is living a short way away from Anthony. She is now Marie Lambert, married to Walter Lambert, living with Daphne Jiggens (my gran), Hamilton Jiggens (Daphnes son) and two more locked records who could be other family members: Percy Charles (husband of Daphne), rex Jiggens (second son of Daphne) and / or Walter Lambert.

Marie and Reginald never appear to marry. It could be that Reginald dies in the war?

The question is - who is Reginald Hamilton? I have a few possibles on the 1901 / 1911 but have not been able to pin down for sure who he is.

If you like intrigue and mysteries read on -

It seems certain that Maries mother - Ernestine - also had her children out of wedlock too.

Ernestine Saunders b1864 - 1961 - mother of Eugene and Marie on the 1911 is listed as widowed.

However it seems from family pictures and stories that she is in fact Ernestine Le Fort who christens an illegitimate child in Marleybone 1890. And also has Marie Saunders in 1894.

Family stories say that my Grandmother Daphne was traveller - possibly Romany.

I have read on this forum that travellers "often didn't marry but would sometimes baptise their children".

It seems that we have two generations of women - Ernestine and Marie - in stable relationship where they give birth to several children, but do not marry the fathers.

Additionally in several places those children are listed as "traveller" -

Anthony P Hamilton on 1939
Reginald Hamilton on the birth certificate of Daphne.

So thats a summary of the story so far. I have some birth & marriage certificates due end of January, and also am doing dna matching on familydna.com

If anyone spots anything in the meantime - any help most welcome!

With thanks,

Cathryn

Offline Clarkey500

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Re: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 09 June 19 13:18 BST (UK) »
A few updates on this thread, the summary of what is known is below:

I have now gained some new information finally from someone who recalls "Reginald Hamilton".

He called himself "Rex" apparently, which makes sense of why my Grandmother Daphne called her children Hamilton and Rex (the latter being my father). He also had a large car, and a boat on the thames "indicating he was quite wealthy". This was recalled by someone who met him when she was young (she was born in the 1930's).

On the marriage certificate of my grandmother Daphne - in 1933 - Reginald / Rex was described as a "Stockbroker".

The previous summary below:

Summarising here the outcomes of this huge long thread

And continuing the search to find "Reginald Hamilton"

Marie M Saunders (on 1911 aged 16 and living in Maida Vale daughter of Ernestine) gives birth it seems (tbc) to 3 children:

Daphne Marguerite Hamilton b1911 Paddington
Stewart E/R Hamilton b1914 Eastbourne Sussex
Anthony P Hamilton b1916 Willseden Middlesex

Daphne (my grandmother): birth certificate lists Reginald Hamilton, flannel manufacturers traveller as father.

Birth certificates are on order Anthony (will order Stewarts too later) to confirm if Reginald / Marie are listed as parents as for Daphne.

1939 census sees Anthony P Hamilton "Occupation traveller" living in Uckfield with Ernestine, mother of Marie. In the 1960's we find Anthony living back in Maida Vale with Stewart.

Back in 1939 - Marie is living a short way away from Anthony. She is now Marie Lambert, married to Walter Lambert, living with Daphne Jiggens (my gran), Hamilton Jiggens (Daphnes son) and two more locked records who could be other family members: Percy Charles (husband of Daphne), rex Jiggens (second son of Daphne) and / or Walter Lambert.

Marie and Reginald never appear to marry. It could be that Reginald dies in the war?

The question is - who is Reginald Hamilton? I have a few possibles on the 1901 / 1911 but have not been able to pin down for sure who he is.

If you like intrigue and mysteries read on -

It seems certain that Maries mother - Ernestine - also had her children out of wedlock too.

Ernestine Saunders b1864 - 1961 - mother of Eugene and Marie on the 1911 is listed as widowed.

However it seems from family pictures and stories that she is in fact Ernestine Le Fort who christens an illegitimate child in Marleybone 1890. And also has Marie Saunders in 1894.

Family stories say that my Grandmother Daphne was traveller - possibly Romany.

I have read on this forum that travellers "often didn't marry but would sometimes baptise their children".

It seems that we have two generations of women - Ernestine and Marie - in stable relationship where they give birth to several children, but do not marry the fathers.

Additionally in several places those children are listed as "traveller" -

Anthony P Hamilton on 1939
Reginald Hamilton on the birth certificate of Daphne.

So thats a summary of the story so far. I have some birth & marriage certificates due end of January, and also am doing dna matching on familydna.com

If anyone spots anything in the meantime - any help most welcome!

With thanks,

Cathryn

Hi Cathryn,

I see you have a possible link to the Romany Saunders family. My grandmother and I (who are both descended from this family) have taken a DNA test on Ancestry and have uploaded our data to GEDmatch. If you have your DNA on either of these websites, we may be able to establish a link.
Devon: Bibby, Bird, Chaplin, Davey, Littlejohns, Pope, Shire, Sloman, Tucker
Dorset: Gauler
Gloucestershire: Gauler
Hampshire: Kimber
London: Crump, Gauler
Middlesex: Crump
Monmouthshire: Brunt
Northumberland: Bibby
Somerset: Clarke, Dibble, Duddridge, Parsons, Pool, Poole, Shire, Silvester
Surrey: Clarke
Wiltshire: Gauler

GEDmatch (myself): A869547
GEDmatch (my maternal grandfather):A933749
GEDmatch (my maternal grandmother): NY7596565

Offline CathrynJ

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Re: Hamilton & Saunders 1900's SE UK
« Reply #51 on: Tuesday 11 June 19 19:45 BST (UK) »
A little bit of extra "wildcard" information here:

It was an aunt of mine who originally said my Dad had Romany ancestry. She was very adamant that it was the Lee family he was descended from, and that Dad hung around in a gang of "Lee brothers" in his younger days. He was in a 'Teddy boy' gang I recall him telling me, that got up to no good.

I had originally dismissed that piece of information not finding the Lee name on any certificates. However as others have been 'creative' around names on documentation on this part of the tree, I thought it worth considering that I can't trace these men because the names I have are not their actual names.

My GEDmatch number in case anyone wants to run a match is A757480