Author Topic: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers  (Read 4241 times)

Offline Ben McCloskey Robinson

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Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« on: Thursday 07 January 16 01:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi there, my great-great called Annie Elder, born around 1869 in the Aghadowey area, was a very busy woman and had several children before she married my great-great grandfather, Robert Graham, and as I've looked up these half-siblings to my great-grandmother, I've realised that she has not registered a father but several of her children have surnames as their middles names, ie. John Wilson Elder and Jane Clarke Elder. Do you think this would have been the done thing to kind of hint towards their biological fathers?

Also, if anyone has any connection or any more information on the Elders fell free to leave it below!

Thanks in advance!
Co. Derry - McFadden, McCloskey, McAfee, Millican, Elder, Graham, Grissam, Gault
Co. Tyrone - Robinson, Little, Potter, Crawford, Menary, Millar, Murphy, Hackett
Co. Armagh - Magowan

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 07 January 16 04:26 GMT (UK) »
I've looked up these half-siblings to my great-grandmother, I've realised that she has not registered a father but several of her children have surnames as their middles names, ie. John Wilson Elder and Jane Clarke Elder. Do you think this would have been the done thing to kind of hint towards their biological fathers?

Hi Ben,

This could well be a hint but it may also be names of her own ancestors.

Have you traced further back such as her mother/grandmother's maiden names?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 07 January 16 04:28 GMT (UK) »
Were the children also born Aghadowey?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 07 January 16 04:32 GMT (UK) »
Can you tell us who her father was, how you know she was b Aghadowey & the names of children with dates in order please?

There may be a pattern with the names?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"


Offline aghadowey

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 07 January 16 08:36 GMT (UK) »
Annie Elder was a remarkable woman who not only raised her own (at least) 12 children but also raised 2 sets of grandchildren when their mothers died. Most of the time she gave children their father's surname but in at least one case the surname of the child was not the father's. The children do appear in some records as Elder but they were mostly known locally by their 'other' surname and the details of their parentage would have been known locally.

Family tree (not complete)-
Annie Elder (c1870-c1940) m.(1903) Robert Graham
1. George Elder (17 Nov.1889)
2. John Wilson Kennedy (13 Dec.1891-1989)
3. Martha Elder (c1893)
4. Margaret Jane "Jeannie" Lynn (19 Dec.1894)- father Tristram McMurtry*- m. Thomas Downes
5. Robert Alexander Mullan** (9 Oct.1897) m. Maggie Laverty
6. James Mullan** (3 Jan.1899-8 July 1943) m.1 Sarah Maude Stewart Barr. When she died in 1934, Annie took over the rearing of the 10 children
7. Eliza/Lily/Lizzie Graham (c1901) m. William Loughery
8. Maggie McFetridge Graham (1905-c1933) m. David Grissam. When she died, her mother Annie raised the 6 children
9. Sarah Graham (1904) m. William McFadden- Ben, these are your great-grandparents
10. Samuel Graham (1906)
11. William McFetridge Graham (1909)
12. Agnes Graham (1913)

* Annie was engaged to Tristram McMurtry but he died before they could marry
** Annie Elder named their father as a Presbyterian schoolmaster which narrowed down the possibilities considerably

Everyone in Aghadowey knew everyone else even if they weren't related  ;) Haven't seen your grandmother since yesterday afternoon, Ben  :)
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Ben McCloskey Robinson

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 07 January 16 13:59 GMT (UK) »
Small world! I was on the phone to her yesterday!

Thanks for all your help, the only child I haven't found is Martha Elder, but I've searched her on PRONI and I think she's the daughter of a Maria Elder and an unknown father, so I'm thinking she was a niece of Annie and perhaps raised by her, wouldn't be out of character for Annie!

The Elders seem to have come from Ballymena but Annie was born in Magherafelt to John Elder and Anne Douglas in 1869!

Thanks everyone for your help!

Co. Derry - McFadden, McCloskey, McAfee, Millican, Elder, Graham, Grissam, Gault
Co. Tyrone - Robinson, Little, Potter, Crawford, Menary, Millar, Murphy, Hackett
Co. Armagh - Magowan

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 07 January 16 22:36 GMT (UK) »
You could be right about Martha being Annie's niece (I don't have a baptism for her although am working with limited, out of date notes at the moment) but I'm fairly certain that Annie had a sister Martha Elder who married (1880) Wilson Kennedy. Which brings me to a problem-

I don't think Annie's parents were John Elder & Ann Douglas (too much doesn't fit) but want to re-check a few things for Annie and then look at John Elder & Ann Douglas closer before posting.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #7 on: Friday 08 January 16 00:09 GMT (UK) »
I now have enough evidence to prove that your Annie Elder was NOT the daughter of John Elder & Ann Douglas.

John Elder, coach smith, m.1 Anne Douglas (d.1901/1911); m.2(c1907) Margaret
1901- Oldtown St., 1911 Burn St.
?death: Ann Elder (1905) http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/9bc26513103834
1.   Son (26 Feb.1864 Ballymena dist.)
2.   John Alexander Elder (10 Apr.1865-1926)
3.   Jane Elder (11 Apr.1867 Magherafelt dist.-1929). 1911 with brother George.
        Burial with sister Annie’s family- https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6239.9354
4.   Annie Elder (3 Aug.1869 Magherafelt dist.-1921)
5.   George Elder (15 Nov.1871 Co.Derry)
6.   Sarah Montgomery Elder (16 Mar.1874)
7.   Frederick Elder (1887 Cookstown dist.-aft.1901) m.(1906) Martha Milliken- 2 daughters: Kathleen (1913), Anne Douglas (1918). 1907 to Canada
        birth: http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/f86b462831193.

John Alexander Elder (10 Apr.1865-1926) m.(1887) Elizabeth Robinson.  Burial https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=8175.4488
1.   Thomas Robinson Elder (c1900-1966).
        Burial https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=9161.3160
2.   Richard Elder (c1902)
3.   James Elder (c1902-1921)
4.   Sarah Elder (c1905)
5.   William Elder (c1907)
6.   Catherine Elder (c1910)
7.   Robert Elder (c1912)

Annie Elder (3 Aug.1869 Magherafelt dist.-1921) m.(1893 Belfast) Richard Istance (1872-1899)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Court_Ward/Old_Lodge_Road/946907/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Howe_Street/151709/
Burial https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6189.4365
1.   Annie Istance (c1893 Belfast/Co.Tyrone) m.(1918 Belfast) Thomas
2.   Margaret Hill “Maggie” Istance (1895 Belfast-aft.1911)
3.   John Elder Istance (1896 Belfast-1896)
4.   Isabella White “Bella” Istance (1897-aft.1911). 1901- with grandparents
5.   Grace Catherine Istance (1899-1900)

George Elder (15 Nov.1871-aft.1911), coach smith, m.(?19 Feb.1898 Belfast) Mary Clarke? (c1876 Co.Antrim-aft.1911)
1901- Ballycastle St., http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Hazelfield/151652/
? George Elder d.1934, Mary Elder d.1911 https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=8227.10967
1.   Ann Douglas Elder (1900 Co.Antrim-aft.1911)
2.   Stillborn child (1903) https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7777.13399
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline Ben McCloskey Robinson

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Re: Elder / Naming of the children of unwed mothers
« Reply #8 on: Friday 08 January 16 13:12 GMT (UK) »
Damn! Looks like it's back to the drawing board for me!

Any idea where I can find her? All i know for certain is her father was called John, its on her marriage certificate!
Co. Derry - McFadden, McCloskey, McAfee, Millican, Elder, Graham, Grissam, Gault
Co. Tyrone - Robinson, Little, Potter, Crawford, Menary, Millar, Murphy, Hackett
Co. Armagh - Magowan