James Hogg (c1811 - c1844) & Ann Hogg (m/s Robinson) c1818 - c1887) Gateshead

[Millmoor]

You can access the marriage of James Hogg and Ann Robinson through Family Search and the Bishop of Durham' s transcripts (image 569 for Tynemouth). Unfortunately there are no parents names given- only the bride and groom and witnesses as well as the vicar.

All the baptisms for Robinson children quoted above are also on the Bishops Transcripts, which if you have not used  before are browse only and so you have to adjust the image numbers to get to the correct year. I located them earlier but now find the viewer is down(well not working for me!)

There also transcripts of these baptisms on freereg.

Have had a go at trying to locate James Hogg's death in the newspaper archive but unable to see anything. Also tried Scottish wills and the North East Inheritance database but does not appear to be a will for him ( Thomas Robinson does not seem to have left a will either). Might MI's be worth looking for?

William

[Rosinish]

Hi William,

Thanks for tip on looking up marriage.

I only just discovered through Jen on Sunday when/where Ann Hogg (Robinson) died....I only know I last saw her on 1881 census.

Possibly a MI would exist for Ann which may shed some light on hubby James?

[JenB]

Worth considering? date a bit early 

Baptism Gateshead St Mary, 27 June 1813, Ann daughter of Thomas Robinson and and Eleanor Mills, of Gateshead, father's occupation silversmith.

Jen,

Do you have a source for this please?

Annie

Easily found initally on Family Search  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJYZ-HF2

This gave me a date which I then found in the excellent Durham Bishops Trancripts

These confirmed the father's occupation but also gave the mother's maiden name (a little unusual in post-1812 baptisms). It also gives the date of birth http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gu4/  (bottom of l-h page)

In reply #19 William referred you to earlier baptisms of children of the same couple, these are Barrington era baptisms so will also give the native parishes of the parents.

As you say though, original quest for James Hogg's roots (father John ) continues... Can I ask, from the marriage of James Hogg to Ann Robinson, was father showing as John? Any occupation?

Sadly pre-1837 marriage records don't show the name of the father and only rarely show occupation. Here is the marriage, again from the Bishops Transcripts (as referred to earlier by William in reply #27) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gu6/

The Bishops Transcripts for the Diocese of Durham are a wonderful resource. However they are not complete either in respect of Parishes or years covered. Additionally they are not searchable by keyword and must be trawled through page by page. http://www.rootschat.com/links/01a2p/

[Rosinish]

Thanks Jen,

The info. for marriage of James & Ann is only by good circumstantial evidence by which Williams find on parents is good. Thank goodness for traditional naming patterns 

Neither of James & Ann's kids were baptised so had to rely on son David's naming of his kids.

Annie

[Millmoor]

Just a thought. The children may have been baptised - simply not in the Church of Scotland but in the Episcopal Church of Scotland or in another non conformist church.

William

[MonicaL]

Just a brief sideline regarding John Hogg, son of James and Ann (Robinson). You mentioned he married an Ann Murray.

JenB had found him with Robinson grandparents in 1851 above.

His marriage to Ann Murray likely 2nd Qrt 1858 in Gateshead/S. Shields - 10a/ 668.

1861 census I thought here, in Gateshead:

John Hogg 24 watchmaker b. Scotland
Ann Hogg 22 b. Gateshead, Durham
John Thomas Hogg 1 b. Gateshead, Durham - maybe? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:26TD-LTQ
Robert Derry 30 brother in law furnace man b. Canterbury, Kent
Eleanor Derry 27 sister in law b. Gateshead, Durham
Robert Derry 2 nephew b. b. S. Shields

Likelyhood that John Hogg died young? One possible death for a 33 yr old John Hogg in Gateshead in 1st Qrt 1870, 10a/429

I thought Ann Robinson may have remarried. There is a marriage in 4th Qrt 1870 in Gateshead between an Ann Hogg and a George Douglass Talintyre ref 10a/1068.

1871 for the family:
 
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB8Q-7VT

A gap there for Hogg children from first marriage. Some of the children died young? There was an Annie Robinson Hogg born in Gateshead in 1867 for example (not sure where David was living at this time, could be one of his children too?).

So these children of John's were with their grandmother in 1881? I think because Ann Murray/Hogg may also have died young, from a possible remarriage for George Douglass Talintyre in the late 1870s - www.myheritage.com/names/george_talintyre

You have this census already:

Dwelling : Nk High Listers Yard, Gateshead, Durham.
Ann HOGG, head, annuitant, widowed, age 64, born Gateshead, Durham.
John Thomas HOGG, grandson, watchmaker, age 21, born Gateshead.
Mary Ann HOGG, grand daur, age 19, born Gateshead. (John or David's child?)
James HOGG, grand son, age 12, born Gateshead.

Annie, if the right death for John Hogg in 1870, he also seems to have been called John Thomas Hogg, the name he gave his first born son. I wonder if this middle name could help re the Hogg line 

What were the names of David's children in order?

Monica

[Rosinish]

Hi Monica,

Have highlighted the bits.........(working from 2 computers & no info. on this one so having to check other) 

Just a brief sideline regarding John Hogg, son of James and Ann (Robinson). You mentioned he married an Ann Murray.

JenB had found him with Robinson grandparents in 1851 above.

His marriage to Ann Murray likely 2nd Qrt 1858 in Gateshead/S. Shields - 10a/ 668.

1861 census I thought here, in Gateshead:

John Hogg 24 watchmaker b. Scotland
Ann Hogg 22 b. Gateshead, Durham
John Thomas Hogg 1 b. Gateshead, Durham - maybe? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:26TD-LTQ (Can't access link but address I have for 1861 is Prospect Terr & birth for J T 1860)
Robert Derry 30 brother in law furnace man b. Canterbury, Kent
Eleanor Derry 27 sister in law b. Gateshead, Durham
Robert Derry 2 nephew b. b. S. Shields
Above given as in-laws so must be his wife's line

David (john's brother) was my direct ancestor)

Likelyhood that John Hogg died young? One possible death for a 33 yr old John Hogg in Gateshead in 1st Qrt 1870, 10a/429 (Ah, yes....looks like a possibility)?

I thought Ann Robinson may have remarried. There is a marriage in 4th Qrt 1870 in Gateshead between an Ann Hogg and a George Douglass Talintyre ref 10a/1068.

1871 for the family:
 
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VB8Q-7VT (Can't acces link)?

A gap there for Hogg children from first marriage. Some of the children died young? There was an Annie Robinson Hogg born in Gateshead in 1867 for example (not sure where David was living at this time, could be one of his children too?). I have a "possible" daughter for John & Ann Murray, Annie Robinson b 1863)?
David had a son Thomas b 1867 d possibly 1902 may have been a twin)?

So these children of John's were with their grandmother in 1881? I think because Ann Murray/Hogg may also have died young, from a possible remarriage for George Douglass Talintyre in the late 1870s - www.myheritage.com/names/george_talintyre

You have this census already:

Dwelling : Nk High Listers Yard, Gateshead, Durham.
Ann HOGG, head, annuitant, widowed, age 64, born Gateshead, Durham.
John Thomas HOGG, grandson, watchmaker, age 21, born Gateshead.
Mary Ann HOGG, grand daur, age 19, born Gateshead. (John or David's child?) - David's dau
James HOGG, grand son, age 12, born Gateshead. (John's son)

Annie, if the right death for John Hogg in 1870, he also seems to have been called John Thomas Hogg, the name he gave his first born son. I wonder if this middle name could help re the Hogg line 

What were the names of David's children in order?

This is the names of children to David & wife Mary Margaret Duff (all b Durham)

Mary Ann 1861 - (M M's mother was Mary/David's mother Ann)
Eleanor Robinson 1863 - (could this be David's g/mother with mother's m/s)?
Wilhelmina 1865 - (MM's father was William)
Thomas 1867 - (could this be David's g/father)?
Gap here
John William c1872 - (MM's g/father was John & her father was William)
James Jeffrey 1873 - (David's father James but yet to find the name Jeffrey)?
Margaret Allen1876 - (MM's g/mother Margaret & her mother's m/s Allan)
Harold Jeffrey 1879 - (have found no link with either name yet)?

Annie

[MonicaL]

Dwelling : Nk High Listers Yard, Gateshead, Durham.
Ann HOGG, head, annuitant, widowed, age 64, born Gateshead, Durham.
John Thomas HOGG, grandson, watchmaker, age 21, born Gateshead.
Mary Ann HOGG, grand daur, age 19, born Gateshead. (John or David's child?) - David's dau
James HOGG, grand son, age 12, born Gateshead. (John's son)

  I haven't researched much on John (c1836) but while with mother on census...no middle name so that death 1870 could be John's son age 10ish)?

John born 1837, I think is likely the death in 1870 in Gateshead. His son John Thomas is the one showing in 1881 living with his grandmother Annie Robison Hogg. Like his father, he seems to also be showing as a watchmaker. We know that James was born c. 1869, then the death we are talking about, then the remarriage for Ann Murray/Hogg.....etc...

I wanted to look at son John born 1837 to see whether any further clues showed re his father James. Sadly, not seeing much more, other than a possible middle name of Thomas that might be important...but then again....John Thomas could be named after James' father, John and also Ann Robinson's father, Thomas...

Always good to look at other options, don't think son John Thomas b. 1837 will help much with the Scottish roots sadly 

Monica

[Millmoor]

Re John Hogg  a search on Durham Records Online shows a record  in their cemetery records for a John Hogg born 1837 died 1870 address 131 High Street. Family search has burial25 Jan 1870 - also has burial for Ann Talintyre 26 Jan 1874.

Durham records online gives death of Annie Robinson Hogg in 1867 address 26 Wylam Street.(very useful site for co. Durham records, ladies).

William