Margaret Ann Guaren/ Clark - Who was she really?

[estiman]

I have a St George Middlesex marriage in 1842 (22 May) between Margaret Ann Guaren and Thomas Ratcliff. She is recorded as a spinster, father John Guaren, Poulterer.

There is a second, Bethnal Green, marriage in 1853 (19 Sept) between Margaret Ann Gueran (not Ratcliff) and Thomas James Laming. She is recorded as a widow, father John Clark, Poulterer. Her signature as Margaret Ann Guaren is identical in both records. I have no record of Thomas Ratcliff's death.

For Thomas Laming and Margaret I have found three children born between January 1846 and March 1852, that is, before their marriage (Alfred, Eliza, Louisa in that order, all born Bermondsey).  I suspect that the second marriage took place while the first was still valid (hence Bethnal Green?). Thomas dies in 1860 and I haven't found Margaret in 1861 nor the children.

I would like to know Margaret's real name - no record I have found gives her birth year, nor birthplace - and what became of them all after Thomas' death in 1860.

Hope someone has some ideas?  Thanks

 

[Ruskie]

You might need to look to Margaret's mother. If she married/remarried to a Clarke or a Guaren, or Margaret was illegitimate and was given her mother's maiden surname, it may account for the anomaly in her father's surname.

There could also have been a mix up by the vicar who mistakenly wrote the father's surname as Clarke. If the marriage is online, it could be worth checking others on the page as one of them may have the surname Clarke.

Do you have Margaret on the 1851 census but her place of birth is not given? Have you checked for Margaret and the children under 'all' surnames in 1861?

I'm sire others will have better suggestions, but these are just some thoughts off the top of my head.

[Annette7]

Of the 3 children whose Christian names you give the only one I can find under Laming in Bermondsey is a Louisa Margaret in Jun.1852 plus there's an Alfred Thomas Jun.1846 and an Eliza Jane Mar.1849 both in Rotherhithe - but these 3 children's parents are an Alfred Henry Laming and wife Eliza??

Annette

[Annette7]

This is becoming most bizarre - the 3 children were baptised on the same day - 4/4/1852 - and parents given as Thomas and Margaret: Alfred Thomas b.27/1/1846, Eliza Jane b.28/1/1849 and Louisa Margaret b.6/3/1852 BUT when all 3 of these people marry they state their father as Alfred Henry Laming or plain Alfred Laming when their fathers full name was Thomas James Laming!!!!

Annette

[Annette7]

Beginning to go crazy!

As stated already, the 3 children baptised together 4/4/1852, parents Thomas and Margaret, he Horse Hair Drawer and their address Cranbourne Place.

Thomas James Laming was bp.27/6/1821 Bermondsey

In 1851 - ref. HO107 - 1560 - 194 - 55 - living at 4 Cranbourne Place, Bermondsey are:

Alfred H Laming    25     Horse Hair Drawer             b. Bermondsey
Eliza Laming         26     Needlewoman                   
Alfred T. Laming  son   5
Ellen (?) J. Laming  dau. 2

In actual fact, Alfred Henry Laming and Eliza were not yet married - he married Eliza Hannah Airzee 11/8/1851 Bethnal Green (again, B.Green like Margaret's 2nd. marriage).

Alfred Henry (bp.18/12/1825 Bermondsey) and Thomas James were brothers.   In 1851 - when not yet married to Margaret Ann - Thomas is still living at home unmarried with his parents and his supposed 2 children are living with his brother and future wife Eliza as if they are their children.   Where Margaret was - who knows!   The address given for Thomas/Margaret when children baptised is same address where Alfred Henry/Eliza lived in 1851 apparently raising their children.

I cannot find Alfred/Eliza in 1861/1871 but know they went on to have children of their own, 2 of which were still with them in 1881.  But from the marriage certificates of T/M's 3 children they name Alfred as their father so presumably were always brought up by him presumably believing him to actually be their father. 

What a palaver!

Annette

[estiman]

Thanks for all that work Annette!  I should have spotted the brother connection... but at 1.30 a.m. my brain slows down  .  I had seen Thomas Laming with his parents in 1851 and when looking for the children I also found Alfred. That's where I should have made the connection, instead of just saying "oh it's not them" (the names are quite common).  Sometimes 'the wood & the trees' syndrome kicks in - that's where another's fresh look is so helpful.
The elusive Margaret Guaren/ Ratcliff/ Laming is still just that - elusive. I've found nothing before and nothing after.  It did occur to me that the father's name 'Clark' on the second marriage certificate may have been invented, a device to cover up the earlier marriage??? The third child, Louisa Margaret was born 6 March 1852, so Thomas & Margaret were still 'together' in 1851, and presumably till the marriage in 1853 (address Gibralter Walk, Bethnal Green).

No children after that, as far as I can see, so perhaps she went off looking for husband number 3? 

Thanks again for your efforts

[lizdb]

Could it be the other way round?  In other words, the children were actually that of Alfred and Eliza (as shown on 1851 and their subsequent marriage certs) but some time after 1851 census and before 1852 baptism they went to live with Thomas and Margaret, an informal, interfamily, "adoption". They were then christened as their children, to mark the new start.

[estiman]

Another little anomaly: in 1851 Alfred S and Ellen J, instead of Alfred Thomas and Eliza Jane in 1852.
I could find no trace in 1861 of children or of Alfred & Eliza, nor in 1871

[Ruskie]

Another little anomaly: in 1851 Alfred S and Ellen J, instead of Alfred Thomas and Eliza Jane in 1852.
I could find no trace in 1861 of children or of Alfred & Eliza, nor in 1871

A copperplate T and S can look similar.