who are the parents of John Melville?

[MelOfFife]

after rereading jennywrens comments, I think the discrepancy lies in that I have viewed the originals for the both banns and all the census's but not for all the children's -those I probably only have viewed the transcripts for from ancestry and must have presumed they didn't have any info leading to the grandparents-im sure those oprs will show something for witnesses so I' m going to mark this completed for now since i'm having card troubles and wont get back for awhile. if they don't turn up anything then i'll reopen and let you know, thanks everyone for the help!

[DonM]

The births I posted are the originals from SP and you will garner nothing but the birth/baptism dates and parents names from those documents.

Example:

Robert Born March born March 22 Baptized May 12 1941 John Melville Sally Ann Pratt

That is all it says.  If you send me a PM with your email I will send you the actual document.

Even OPR Banns/Marriages don't normally tell you much more than that.

I believe the problem you are having with SP is you are trying to use a US Debit/ATM card.  If so they won't work if your bank doesn't use World Pay as their clearing house and I don't think they have a lot of inter-banking relationships with North American Banks.  US Banks normally use NCHA as their clearing company a competing firm.  A credit card (Visa/MC/etc), will work.

Don

[MelOfFife]

,i think your right ,in fact, if im not mistaken it was a person named don that gave me all that info in '06 which  prompted me to buy the banns to frame for my den. then I viewed the cencus'that got me to collessie/pitlessie in the first place. im wondering if that was you, might just be coincidence though(cant rember the last name)
 as far as my card not working, I can get around that by offering a few paypal dollars for someone to look up a document for me if needed, but I don't think I have anything to view that I havn't already seen at the moment -which is why im looking for alternative routes
ill send you my email anyway to look at 'em, but its possible ive already seen them -as you stated above,they didn't contain much information- from what I remember

[MelOfFife]

my best possible leads will be going to the cemeteries in spring and looking for that john from Caledonia st. which is a few miles or so from the cemetery, it has a few masonic/odd fellow graves too and a big gaudy pyramid- biggest pyramid mausoleum i've ever seen other than old presidents and senators monuments. in my research one of these emigrant Melville kids helped start Enterprise lodge 80 or something ,but I wont go into the masonic/eastern star connections right now, but its  right up there w a Henry Lincoln Templar conspiracy novel leading back to the roseline at Roslyn down the way from ancient lands of Melville castle at Dalkeith.my genealogy journey unraveled like a strange fictional mystery to say the least.it was mostly coincidental but my mom(when she was sixteen) leaned over on a grave to take a pic of this gaudy pyramid while her friend was searching for her adopted parents in the graveyard then turned around and saw the strange masonic carvings on the grave she was leaning
(before she ever started dating my dad).years later she marries my dad and then sometime in my thirties I look at photo albums and see these old photos and that the name is my surname so I start looking into it and it ensds up being one of my dads relatives. my gr grampas brother from the 1840s I think. talk about coincidence/ that's how I got started in genealogy . -from the pyramid to Roslyn. caledonii to caledonii -. lol- all these coincidences seemed like mystery at the time but in hindsight its easy to see how emigrants would name new places like the homeland. the mysterious part were the pictures taken before I was born and them leading me on the journey in the first place to my real ancestors.it all coincided with the timing of dan browns ripoff of Lincoln and the fanfare at the time but I never paid attention bcz I had my own mystery leading back to the same place in non-fictional real-time terms. the whole ordeal reminded me of the poussan painting and the paris meridian,but theres turned oot to be a hoax.I could probably hire a screenwriter and write a movie about it centered on those pictures and make a million.. lol. wishful thinking

btw,the masons of the northern jurisdiction group their lodges by 'valleys' instead of 'orients' like the southern jurisdiction. the original name of this town was - valley city.. so theres something strange going on in this town!  haha

[MelOfFife]

my gr gramps first wife died at 50 then got remarried,
so my gr was born when his dad was age 55..
he told him we r related to th earl of melvlle.
his dad died when he was 13 so he never really got to ask him about it,
. so we didnt ake much stock in it, and this got passed down to me
 and i originally discounted it. had our last known immigration point

 been kellie castle in the east neuk,
i wouldnt have thought twice but ..
lo 'n behold after searching i found out
we end up originting from collessie.
which is a stones throw to the earls mansion house,
then i found james melvilles tomb was well known
in collessie. i could literally stand on jamesm melville
 the famous chroniclers tomb and launch a potato launcher volley
to the melvill home farm in the earls backyard.
its about two miles as the spud flies...
so its always been intriguing but im over the delusion
 of being related to the earl bcz most melvilles from the area share a common past
w the earl without being directly related just by georaphy alone..
my pet theory for awhile was that i was related to
william henry leslie-melville the east india co. dir,
and that we just dropped the leslie title since we were
 not going to be in line for the title after john thornton and ready to leave for canada.
 him and his brother Robert seem to have missing pedigrees in the peerage.their timelines fit so..
i tried to find a link to the east india co ship 'agamemnon' from that time
and trading between ports in canada and india ,hoping to find a reason for going to canada
but there was no evidence. they made it through the potato famine but may have become destitute economically so had to pick up and leave-, the timeline fits but the proof doesnt, instead we end up being lime kiln workers and weavers    I always go back to think maybe my trail will lead back further  to younger brother of the earl of leven (cadet branch) or Andrew the reformer but it looks not likely!

[MonicaL]

Pity it has all got scrambled 

Why don't you do a brief paragraph or similar with just the key info you have. People can pick up from there and ask questions along the way if need be 

Monica

[MelOfFife]

Pity it has all got scrambled 

Why don't you do a brief paragraph or similar with just the key info you have. People can pick up from there and ask questions along the way if need be 

Monica

yes I wrote it backward, I should have wrote it forward to make it clearer,but I was writing in the direction I was tracking it from their graves to cradle rather than the other way around. maybe ill write it the other way around as a narrative tomorrow but my fingers r tired at the moment, 

[MelOfFife]

basically:
-john m was born around 1818-
- he got married in 1839 collessie or cults
 -had 8 kids in cults/pitlessie where he was working
-immigrated to petborough Canada abt 1855-57 ship unkown
-another 4 kids born in canada
-immigrated into Michigan after the am. civil war was completed after 1866-67- probably much work for able bodied pll since so many died.
-his wife dies 1883 hes listed as widower so must be alive after this time
- cant find his death cert       'the end'

all of his kids are buried in the cemetery across from that gaudy pyramid-lol

i'll stop there for the moment w basics

[Annette7]

Think you'll find that John Melville died 3rd December 1892 Grand Rapids, Michigan although age 4 years out - shown as age 70 and a widower.   As far as I can tell, he was the only John Melville born in that time frame who was in Grand Rapids.   Unfortunately, the record does not state who the informant was, birthplace shown as unknown and parents details left blank.

However, on the 1851 Census John Melville states he was born Cupar, Fife ca.1817.

Scotlands People shows only 2 baptisms for a John Melville between 1815 and 1820 in Cupar - one was born 14/12/1818, bp.20/1/1819 son of a Robert and Agnes Mcgirdie, however noting their other children this John was still single and living with some of his siblings in 1851.

The other John Melville was born 24/5/1817, bp.31/5/1817 Cupar, son of William Melville (Mason) and Agnes Dick.

Your John named his first child William (b.2/11/1839, bp.18/12/1839) which follows the pattern of first born son being named after paternal grandfather.

So, surely your John is the one born/baptised in 1817 Cupar, son of William & Agnes (nee Dick)?

William Melville, mason, d.3/3/1838 Cupar aged 66 of Palsy.

Agnes (Dick), widow of William Melville, mason died of old age 4/12/1850 Cupar aged 76.

Unfortunately, the census records for Cupar, Fife in 1841 are 'missing'.

Annette