LITTLE: Charles, Robert and an unnamed dau born Lambeth (2nd amendment)

[Bookbox]

But the Infirmary was adjacent to the Renfrew Road workhouse, effectively on the same site.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Lambeth/#Post-1834

[Connie Sparrow]

But the Infirmary was adjacent to the Renfrew Road workhouse, effectively on the same site.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Lambeth/#Post-1834

Ah! Thank you

[rosie99]

I am trying to find the family on census - is Philip calling himself John in 1881
RG11/598 f7 page 8
John Little age 29 bn Westminster
Jane born 25 bn Oxfordshire
Edward 5 bn Westminster
John 3 bn Westminster
Henry 3 months bn Lambeth

I see in 1901 Jane says she is born Brackley, Oxfordshire but I can't see them before this census 

Yes, that's them in 1881

Philip John
Jane (she didn't have a middle name)
Albert Edward
Philip John (jnr)
Thomas Henry.

On your first post you have Philip John jnr born June 1881 which is after this census.  This 1881 has John as age 3

[Connie Sparrow]

On your first post you have Philip John jnr born June 1881 which is after this census.  This 1881 has John as age 3

The birth date is given in his baptism. I'm more inclined to go with the baptism as being correct.

Thomas Henry gives his age when he married in 1899 as 20 which suggests he and Philip John jnr should be the other around in the census.

This is one heck of a family.  We're finding children through all sorts of sources. Joseph via a newspaper article, Mary Jane via her marriage, baptisms for some, one of which, Philip John jnr, wasn't even in his home parish, civil registration for some.

[rosie99]

So John age 3 (c1878) is an addition to the list then and not Philip John as you thought 

[Connie Sparrow]

So John age 3 (c1878) is an addition to the list then and not Philip John as you thought 

I see what you're driving at

There's this possibiltiy for Thomas Henry which would support his ascertion he was 20 when he married in 1899

Births Jun 1878
Little    Thomas         Lambeth    1d   354

There are these two Thomases which would support the 1881 census:

Births Sep 1880
LITTLE    Thomas         Lambeth    1d   548

Births Mar 1881
LITTLE    Thomas Henry         Lambeth    1d   417

Then there's this Phillip John which would support the 1881 census:

Births Mar 1878
LITTLE    Phillip John         St. Geo. H. Sq.    1a   441

However, there's no Philip or John or combination of thereof that matches the DoB as given in the baptism record.

The child's name is correct, the parents are correct. The home address is correct in so far as it gives Lambeth. What is out of step is that the baptism took place in Clerkenwell and the minister officiation was HM Prison Chaplain.

The father was a carpenter when he married in 1877. All records after that give him as a labourer, general labourer, painter's/plasterer's labourer, house painter, house decorater - all unskilled or semi skilled jobs.

There was a prison in Clerkenwell which I believe was also a debtors prison. Is it possible the father got into debt and that caused his change of profession?

And if Philip John, son of Philip John, labourer, and Jane bapt 16 May 1882 (with a DoB given of 14 June 1881) wasn't actually named Philip John - who the heck was he (or she)?

14 June was the birthday of Jane's illegitimate son, Albert Edward.

Time machine anyone???

[lizdb]

I think the most likely explanation is that when the Parish Register was written up, the date of birth of Phililp John was incorrectly entered.
The dates are not consecutive (Philips baptism dated 16th May is after an entry dated 19th May) so presumably was written up later. So the chaplain may have misread his notes or got the dates mixed up with some other child he baptised somewhere else.

[Connie Sparrow]

I think the most likely explanation is that when the Parish Register was written up, the date of birth of Phililp John was incorrectly entered.
The dates are not consecutive (Philips baptism dated 16th May is after an entry dated 19th May) so presumably was written up later. So the chaplain may have misread his notes or got the dates mixed up with some other child he baptised somewhere else.

I'd noticed the non consecutive dates too.

I guess the birth cert will confirm or otherwise I'll get that as soon as I can and in the meantime see if I can find out the reason for the Clerkenwell baptism.