Clifton Lodge

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pamela

I have all of these Rooks, although I haven't  followed John Rook's family down, other than sticking in a couple of spouses. I suppose that your Albone interest stems from Caroline's husband Silvanus?

Both of my parents descend from Southill Rooks, so are 7th cousins, although I have problems with my father's side - a minor case of bastardy. But this is compounded by the Alexander chr 1733 and his parents. Alexander's mother is quoted as Elizabeth.  Is this an error? There are no other Alexander births, or marriages to Elizabeth, in any of the surrounding parishes, or on the IGI. I think that his parents were Alexander and Alice(Clarke) married at Old Warden on 22 Jun 1724. This couple had Elizabeth chr 13 Sept 1724 at Clifton where Alex. the father was described as "of Southill" (this entry is missing from the IGI, but was extracted from the PR by a Rook researcher in Australia. I haven't checked it myself). They also had Henry, chr 5 Oct 1740 at Southill - and Henry seemed to become a family name thereafter.

What do you think?

Regards

David

[Pamela Cooper]

Hi David

So we are related albeit distantly.  I also have Alexander married to Elizabeth but no surname.  Their son Alexander 1733 was married to Sarah Grey 1 Dec 1759.  Henry Rook b 1761 married Ann Upchurch and had William, Elizabeth, Alexander and Ann Upchurch 20 October 1788.  I have more info but do not know how much you have.  My info I got searching the Parish Records at the LDS office but I have not searched before 1774 (must order that film)

I also got some of my info from a Melbourne researcher.  Her husband descended from James Rook and Sarah Mabbott and I descended from John Rook (brother) and Rhoda Mabbott.  She sent me some photos if you are interested of her family.

Yes Sylvanus Albone and Caroline Rook were my g grandparents and Emma Albone was my grandmother who married William Henry Cooper son of Arthur Samuel Chambers Cooper who is turn is the son of our elusive Betsy.

I have been searching for a marriage between Betsy and Charles Goodship but to no avail.  I note they both died young.  I started this as I have Polycystic Kidney Disease and was interested in tracing it back through the generations.  I hope you have escaped this (a lot of my relatives have it)

Which Rooks are your ancestors.
Regards
Pamela

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pamela

It's that Alexander married to Elizabeth that I question. Bedfordshire parish registers pre 1812 are virtually all on the IGI as controlled extracts. There is no marriage of Alexander to Elizabeth. And given that Alex. and Alice had children in 1724 and 1740 if the PR is correct with Alex b 1733 his father Alex's baptism is also missing. As they were both reproducing in the same village at the same time, for those reasons I think the Elizabeth is an error in the PR. There are also no burials recorded for the phantom Alex and Elizabeth.  Of course this is total conjecture which can never be proved (unless I can find a will or two - I must ask Bedford record office ).

The Alexander who married Alice Clarke was christened at Clifton on 22 Feb 1701. He was the son of Alexander and Millicent (Gadsby) who married at Campton on 3 Feb 1695. They had a daughter Elizabeth in 1696 from whom my mother is descended. My father descends from the Henry Rook b 1740.

I've managed to piece together most of the Rooks in Southill and Henlow up to the mid 1800s - in fact Henry and Ann had another son John chr 15 May 1796 at Henlow.

It's not the same Australian who I was in touch with. She is a direct descendant herself. Coincidentally we went to the same secondary school, and are first cousins to the same Coopers, she through their mother and me through their father, although we are not connected.

Fortunately I don't think I've got the kidney problem

I've just found Betsy's marriage in Sept quarter 1858 on 1837Online. Betsy Cooper/Charles Goodship Biggleswade registration district Vol 3b Page 572. So now you have some half gg aunts that you didn't know existed! Is it a coincidence that Betsy married a Southill man when there was a Samuel Chambers who married in Southill in 1849??? Was she perhaps working in Southill in the mid 1850s?

Regards

David

[Pamela Cooper]

Dear David

Thank you so much.  You have really helped solve the puzzle and it makes sense that Betsy was working in Southill or at least that Arthur Samuel Chambers Cooper's father was Samuel Chambers.

That leaves me with the mystery (which I will never solve) of why my father called my brother Christopher William Pryor Cooper and told me that Pryor was a family name.  My father was very big on tradition and family and would not have named his only son Pryor without a very good reason.  He was deputy commissioner of intelligence in Nigeria, won the OBE etc etc so why the Pryor - probably a skeleton I will never be able to find.  I did think that maybe the father of Betsy's child was Pryor but looks like I am wrong.

Must admit I could not confirm the Elizabeth link either and treated it with suspicion.  Means more searching.

Thank you once again for solving the Betsy puzzle.
Regards
Pamela

[Pamela Cooper]

Hi David

How did you match up Betsy and Charles Goodship in 1838 Online.  I can only get the list of names when I view them (purchase) not who they are married to.

Sorry to appear such an idiot.
Regards
Pamela

[bedfordshire boy]

You need to look at both names and cross match the same reference number. Whilst it's not totally foolproof as there could be other names on the page, given the circumstantial evidence I think you are on pretty safe ground - certainly sufficient to justify shelling out 7 quid!

It wasn't until very much later that the name of the spouse was included in the index, which of course makes life very much easier.

kind regards

David

[Pamela Cooper]

Thank you and thank you for the time it took to find this for me.  I have no doubt that this is my Betsy especially as she named her son James Henry after her father Henry Cooper and her husbands's father James Goodship.
All the best
Pamela

[bedfordshire boy]

Just to tidy up this thread in case anyone looks at in the future regarding Arthur Samuel Chambers Cooper illegitimate son of Betsy Cooper, here's a snippet from the Cambridge Independent Press of 24 Nov 1855