Two christenings for Margaret born c 1832 daughter of John Jones & Elinor Thomas

[rkive82]

I have a few facts about my great, great grandparents John and Elinor Jones. It would be great to find their birth information and parents too , but first ...
**
It appears that their daughter Margaret may have been christened/baptised twice.
1. 14 March 1832 at Pencadair (?) Independent Church, Llanfihangel-ar-Arth, Carm.
with a birth date of 5 February 1832. She is the daughter of John and Elinor.
**
2. 8 December 1833 at St Peter's Church in Lampeter, Cardiganshire. Margaret is the daughter of John, a shoemaker, and Elinor Jones of Bryn Cottage.
**
Census info from 1851, 1861 and 1871 tell us that Elinor was born in Llanfihangel-ar-Arth about 1806 and John was born in Pencarreg about 1808.
**
From the Census in 1841 we have Elinor living in Llanfihangel-ar-Arth with her son David, 4, and a David and Margaret Thomas who may be her parents. I am guessing that she would have been pregnant at the time as she had twin boys John and William who were christened in Lampeter on 18 July 1841. Margaret had died aged 4 in 1834 or 1837 - I'm not sure which.
Meanwhile, John was at Bryn Cottage in Lampeter running his shoemaking business with some of his staff.
**
My questions are
1. Could Margaret have been christened twice? So, could John and Elinor have been married twice? They were married on 12 June 1833 at St Peter's in Lampeter.
*
2. When did Margaret die? 7 February 1834 or 1837?
*
3. When were John and Elinor born and who were their parents?
*
4. When were the twins John and William born in 1841?
**
That's an awful lot to ask, but I'm really hoping somebody can make some sense of it all.
Thanks very much,
Richard

[BumbleB]

Assuming I've been looking in the correct Registration District - Lampeter - then in March quarter 1841 there are entries for John Jones and William Jones on the same page - 48.

I don't think it is too unusual for children to be baptised in both a non-conformist church and in an Anglican church.

[Marmalady]

I have a child christened twice -- once in the parish where the family was living and then again a month or two later back in the parish where the mother came from

And double baptisms in a non-conformist chapel that the parents attended regularly followed by a CofE baptism that was thought more "official" was certainly common

[josey]

Margaret had died aged 4 in 1834 or 1837 - I'm not sure which.

What's your source for the possibly 2 pieces of information 1834 or 1837? I doubt 'your' Margaret was the only Margaret Jones in the area.

[josey]

So, could John and Elinor have been married twice? They were married on 12 June 1833 at St Peter's in Lampeter.

The 1832 baptism definitely states Elinor to be John's wife.

[rkive82]

Good morning (I am 8 hours behind GMT),
Thanks for your input.
*
If the twins William and John were born in Q March 1841, why wouldn't they have appeared on the Census with either parent. The Census was for 7th June 1841 I believe.
*
There's a family grave at St Peter's in Lampeter for John, Elinor, their son David who died in 1857 and Margaret. The stone seems to state that Margaret died on 7th Feb 1834, but burial records state she was buried on 10th Feb 1837.
*
Can anybody find a marriage record in Pencarreg or Llanfihangel-ar-Arth for John and Elinor before Margaret was christened i.e. March 1832.
Thanks a lot,
Richard
^

[josey]

The 1832 baptism states born 5 Feb 1832, which would not have changed by the 1833 baptism....so if Margaret was definitely aged 4 when she died, it cannot have been in 1834. However she would have been 4 on 5 Feb 1836....not 1837  but perhaps she died so near her birthday that she was said to be 4 not 5.

ADDED: 2 for the back burner as babies not with families their own name, possibly wet nurses?
1841 HO107/13876/21/7 Llandilofawr
Elizabeth Thomas 25
William Jones 3 mo

HO107/1382/29/4 Llanwinio
John Jones 5 weeks/months 
with Phoebe Jenkins 20 & possibly Phoebe's Jenkins parents

I have not followed any of these further forward & admit to limited knowledge of Carmarthenshire geography, so places could be long distances apart!1

[BumbleB]

If the twins William and John were born in Q March 1841, why wouldn't they have appeared on the Census with either parent. The Census was for 7th June 1841 I believe.

Good question, and I don't know the answer - and one in return, sorry.  1851 Census (HO107/2471 volume 164, page 10 - if I've got the right one  ) shows John (55 and a farmer) and Elinor (45), with son John aged 4 and a stepson, John Thomas, aged 8.  So have both John and William died between 1841 and 1851?

[rkive82]

In the family grave with Margaret are David, who died in 1857, Eleanor (Elinor), died in 1878 and John, who died in 1879. Perhaps the gravestone, a large stone with a big cross on it, was engraved at a much later date and an error made.
*
The censuses for 1851, 1861 and 1871 all have John and Elinor in Lampeter. William died in 1894 and John in 1917. John aka Jaci Baccer, had a thriving shoe making business in Lampeter, which William ran for a while.
*
Richard