Author Topic: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756  (Read 831 times)

Offline rkive82

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Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« on: Friday 12 February 16 06:28 GMT (UK) »
I know little of Watkin Watkins, who was my 4th great-grandfather. He was the father of Hester Watkins (1756-1840) who married Dr John Thomas (1759-1826).
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What I have seen on another tree is that Watkin Watkins was a Blaenhownant Society steward who spread the word of God as a Methodist. He probably married more than once; supposedly one of those was to a Hester Parry in 1758, after his daughter Hester's birth.
**
Watkin Watkins apparently lived at Gwndwn, Llangranog. Can anybody help me with more information please? Some dates of birth or death would be particularly helpful.
Thanks
Richard
RPJ
Jones Thomas Dickinson Paulsen Olsen Jackson Laidler Ramage Brown

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Offline osprey

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #1 on: Friday 12 February 16 16:40 GMT (UK) »
the NLW has his will, written 27 Jan 1776, registered 8 July 1777, wife Hester & youngest son Thomas were named executors.

https://viewer.library.wales/1005116#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&z=0.2292%2C0.0451%2C0.483%2C0.4977

It mentions
daughter Jane, married to Thomas Rees
son John
daughter Elizabeth, married to David Moses
daughter Mary
son David
daughter Hester
youngest son Thomas
wife Hester
Daughters Hester & Mary were given something that belonged to their mother.

The probate is also there & mentions that Thomas & Hester are the two children of Watkin's second marriage.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h1y/ 
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

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Offline rkive82

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #2 on: Friday 12 February 16 17:03 GMT (UK) »
Excellent. Thanks very much Osprey.
So the will was registered in 1777 and that is the date for the probate. Watkins Watkins died in 1777. Correct?
Richard
RPJ
Jones Thomas Dickinson Paulsen Olsen Jackson Laidler Ramage Brown

Offline osprey

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #3 on: Friday 12 February 16 17:12 GMT (UK) »
the NLW has more docs about the same family including a release 19 Dec 1758 which mentions the pre-nuptial settlement of Watkin Watkins & Hester Parry, widow.

There's another release that mentions Margaretta Elinora Parry of Llangrannog, only living daughter of the late John Parry of Cwmcynon & Hester, his wife, Watkin's name is on it as well. So that looks like Hester's first marriage.

This one from 1754 is helpful
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h20/ 
It mentions Watkin's first wife, Elizabeth, the only child of Rees & Jane Jenkins, Jane now being married to Rees Jones of Llanllwchaearn.

The docs are coming up when I search for Watkins and Llangrannog in the NLW catalogue.

 ;)

Sorry, was just typing another reply. The only thing to be sure about was that he died between the writing of the will & the date it was registered. So 1776/1777.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline rkive82

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #4 on: Friday 12 February 16 17:29 GMT (UK) »
This branch of my tree is starting to make sense to me and the dates fit what we know.
Hester (née Howells I believe) married John Parry first. John died in 1747 I have seen. Hester then married Watkins Watkins in 1758. What puzzles me is that I have a date of birth for Hester the daughter of Dec. 1756. She could still be the daughter of Watkins and Hester I suppose, but born out of wedlock before their marriage. Or that birth date is incorrect.
Richard
RPJ
Jones Thomas Dickinson Paulsen Olsen Jackson Laidler Ramage Brown

Offline osprey

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #5 on: Friday 12 February 16 17:46 GMT (UK) »
I'd say that the birth date is a guess. What is the source for it? Unlikely for the daughter of a landed gent to be born before marriage. 1758 is the date of the document referring to the settlement, but the marriage may have been earlier.
The church registers for the period you're interested in no longer exist. Baptisms & burials for 1763-1812 were around in 1831, but have since been lost. The marriage records for the period are in the archives in Aberystwyth & at the NLW. There are a very few BTs also at the NLW, but none between 1706 & 1799. No non-conformist records exist before 1849.

As Watkin is noted as gentleman, it could be that he married outside the parish anyway.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #6 on: Friday 12 February 16 17:59 GMT (UK) »
wonder if Watkin's father was the John mentioned in this doc?

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01h21/ 

There's a book mentioned under the Methodist entry here which may help you?

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Llangrannog/Chapels
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline rkive82

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #7 on: Friday 12 February 16 18:01 GMT (UK) »
The birth date of 14th December 1756 for Hester who married John Thomas MRCS comes from Robert Moseley Bryce Thomas (1840-1937). Robert was a prized convert to the Mormon faith in 1896 and recorded 200 pages of information about family and friends which I recently viewed on microfilm at my local Family History Centre.
I have seen the odd error but they have been close to the dates I have managed to confirm elsewhere.
Richard
RPJ
Jones Thomas Dickinson Paulsen Olsen Jackson Laidler Ramage Brown

Offline rkive82

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Re: Watkin Watkins of Gwndwn, Llangranog - father of Hester Watkins born 1756
« Reply #8 on: Friday 12 February 16 18:22 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much Osprey for your help and expertise. Those links will keep me busy. I am a member of the Dyfed FHS which may help too.
If I can do anything to help you in the way of processing photos, please let me know. I have an old version of Photoshop.
I may contact you to help with reading these old documents.
Richard
RPJ
Jones Thomas Dickinson Paulsen Olsen Jackson Laidler Ramage Brown