Author Topic: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?  (Read 3789 times)

Offline Peffness

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Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« on: Sunday 14 February 16 15:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rootschatters,

I'm getting really stuck on finding out about my great-great-grandfather George Herbert "Topper" Brown. I can't pin down his birth, death, or details about his parents.

I'll talk through what I have so far and hopefully a fresh pair of eyes can help!

Birth
I haven't been able to track this down.
If his marriage certificate is correct, he would have been born about 1897.
I don't know his mother's name, however on his marriage certificate his father is listed as Leister Brown, a carpenter.
(His father may also have been in the Navy, but this is family legend and I don't have any proof)
My grandparents say George was "a Kentishman" but I don't know if he was born in the county or moved there later.

1901 census
He would have been around 4, but I've drawn a blank as I don't know his parents' names/can't say for sure where they were living.

1911 census
He would have been around 14, but I've drawn a blank as I don't know his parents' names/can't say for sure where they were living.

(I haven't yet turned up a record of a Leister or Lester Brown and George in the same household on the 1901 or 1911 censuses).

Marriage Certificate - 26 Aug 1916
George Herbert Brown married Adelaide Rebecca Richards in the Parish Church of St Mary the Virgin, Chatham.
He was 19, putting his birth about 1897.
This is where his father is listed as Leister Brown, a carpenter.
George's residence is "Royal Naval Barracks" and his occupation is "Stoker, Royal Navy."

WWI
There is a family story that his ship was sunk and he was rescued from a raft, but I don't know where that was.
The National Archives has a few George Browns listed in the Navy, so I'm not sure where to go with it.
The family story also goes that he was in Ireland during the Easter Uprising.

First son born - 20 November 1918
My great-grandfather Cyril Brown was born 20 November 1918.
Cyril's place of birth was 29 Back Brook, Chatham, which is recorded as the residence of George's wife Adelaide.
George's occupation is listed as "Stoker Royal Navy (Baker journeyman)."
Forgive my ignorance, but is that a naval term or was he actually working as a baker at the same time as being a stoker in the Navy? And would he have been living with Adelaide or would he still be in the barracks?

First daughter born - 1919
George & Adelaide's first daughter was born around 1919. She was known as Doll, so her full name was probably Dorothy. It turns out the birth record I had was for a different Dorothy Brown, so right now I'm not 100% on when and where she was born. Dorothy/Doll may even be her middle name.

Second son born - 21 June 1920
George Herbert Brown Junior was born 21 June 1920 at 140 Charter Street, Chatham. (Again this place of birth is also recorded as the residence of George's wife Adelaide).
George's occupation is listed as "Labourer at aeroplane works."
This is interesting! What "aeroplane works" is this likely to be? Could there be a record of him leaving the Navy between 1918-1920?

Third son born - 27 December 1921
Percy L Brown's birth was registered in Medway but I don't have a copy of his birth certificate.

Second daughter born - 19 May 1932
Vera Brown was born at 123 Brook, Chatham. George's occupation is listed as "general labourer" on her birth certificate.
Family story says that he worked as a builder. From what I've read, The Brook was a pretty rough area in the 1930s, which suggests the family weren't well off.

Fourth Son born - 8 December 1934
Ronald Brown was born at 123 Brook, Chatham.
Again, this is the residence of Adelaide.
Again, George's occupation is given as "General labourer".

The Family Move to Battersea - bef 1939
At some point after the birth of Ronald in Chatham, Adelaide and the children move to Battersea.
I'd assume George went with them!

Marriage of eldest son - 5 August 1939
George and Adelaide's eldest son, Cyril, gets married to Jessica Norah Cox. Those are my great-grandparents. (He's 20 years old, she's 17 and pregnant... Uh oh).
George's occupation is listed as "drainage contractors foreman" on the marriage certificate.
Cyril's residence is given as 423a Battersea Park Road, Battersea. I know this is where Adelaide and the other siblings are living because...

1939 Register
I unlocked the entry for 423A Battersea Park Road, Battersea, convinced that I would at last find George Herbert Brown's birth date... But, alas!
Adelaide Rebecca Brown is listed first.
Then Percy L Brown, working as a builder's labourer. He would have been 17.
Then three rows are blanked out. I think these must be the youngest three children - George, Vera and Ronald. (Doll was about 20 so might have married and moved out at this point).
I can't find George Herbert Brown senior.

Death
This is a mystery to me as well. My grandparents said it would have been in the fifties, but have been no more specific than that!

Finally, I've attached a picture. This is the only photo of George Herbert "Topper" Brown that I have.

Thanks for reading all that and any help would be appreciated!




Offline KGarrad

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 14 February 16 15:40 GMT (UK) »
There is this death?

June qtr 1971
Grimsby Registration District     vol 3b, page 460

Brown, George Herbert     age 74  born 30 April 1897
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 14 February 16 15:53 GMT (UK) »
There's a Royal Navy record for a stoker named George Herbert Brown, born Sheffield, 14 February 1897 (Valentine's Day - like today !). Joined up on 20 June 1916. He was based in Chatham (Pembroke 2) until September 1916.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline KGarrad

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 14 February 16 15:57 GMT (UK) »
That George Brown can be found on the 1911 census at the Philanthropic Society's Farm School in Reigate! ;D
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)


Offline Paco

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 14 February 16 15:58 GMT (UK) »
On FreeBMD there is a George Herbert Brown born Sept qtr 1899 Lewisham 1d 1196. You could send for this to see if his father was Lester/Leister Brown.
regards.
Essex/Dorset/Berks

Offline rosie99

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 14 February 16 16:03 GMT (UK) »
There are Army records for what looks like could be the same person - born in Sheffield.

He was a baker on the Army records but was discharged in 1913.   He was living at The Farm School, Redhill
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Online heywood

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 14 February 16 16:09 GMT (UK) »
Doesn't fit with dad  :-\

1901 4345/6/3

George W Brown 31 yrs Journeyman Baker
Allice C Brown 27 yrs
George H Brown   4 yrs b Crooke, Sheffield
Ivy M E Brown 1 yr


This could be George Harry Brown who was in the Navy from 1919
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Offline rosie99

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 14 February 16 16:11 GMT (UK) »
It is quite possible that George H Brown was still in the Navy for WW2 in which case you won't find him on the 1939 register.  Just noticed that you have a marriage in 1939 giving him a different occupation
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Offline rosie99

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Re: Can you help me find George Herbert "Topper" Brown of Chatham?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 14 February 16 16:14 GMT (UK) »
A possible death
Sep qtr 1966   
George H BROWN    age    70   
CHATHAM    reg district  5F   169
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk