Author Topic: Information pls on Isabella Gilmour married to William McGie in 1824  (Read 1862 times)

Offline sandir03

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Information pls on Isabella Gilmour married to William McGie in 1824
« on: Sunday 28 February 16 05:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
   I am actually researching the McGie family from Glasgow (and other areas) of which my grandmother Robina McGie was a descendant. I have information on the above William McGie but I  have very little information on his wife Isabella.....I have done lots of searching, especially in FamilySearch and ScotlandsPeople (SP) but keep hitting a brick wall when it comes to any Gilmour information.

I do have the following information:

1. William McGie (McGhie, McGee, Magee, McGhee, etc) – Was a tile/brick maker with his own business. His parents were Walter McGie (B. Abt 1752 - ?) and Jean Arnot (B. 1768 - 1868). William also had siblings – James, Jean and Walter.
B. 01/01/1797 in New Kilpatrick, Dunbarton
Bpt. 15/01/1797
D. 25/07/1868 in Knockinshannock, Drymen, Stirling. Death record shows aged 76, both parents deceased AND he is widower of Isabella Gilmour.
M. to Isabella Gilmour – 27/02/1824 in Cambuslang, Glasgow

2. Isabella Gilmour – (Isabel, Isbel, Isobel, Gilmor) Not much information on her at all. Parents/family ??
   B. assuming about 1806 in Erskine/Renfrew – haven’t found birth in SP.
   D. 9/7/1852 at Offrance Tile works, Buchlyvie, Drymen, Stirling. I couldn’t find any reference to her death in SP but I came across a Death notice in a newspaper –

http://www.happyhaggis.co.uk/1852jul.htm
Birth, Marriage & Death notices from Scottish newspapers:
July 1852
16th July 1852
DEATHS [02]
At Offerance Tile Works Buchlivie, on the 9th instant, Isabella Gilmour, aged 45 years, wife of Mr William McGie.

   The 1841 Census of Erskine – William aged 40 (Head, Tile maker); Isabella aged 30 with 5 children. Also a James Gilmour aged 20, a Tile maker is mentioned – could this be a sibling/cousin?

   The 1851 Census of Buchlyvie (Drymen) – William aged 57 (Head, b. Dunbarton, Kilpatrick, Tile manufacturer employing 8 labourers); Isabella, wife, aged 45 (born Renfrew) with 7 children.

   The 1861 Census of Drymen – William aged 61 (Head, b. Dunbarton, Kilpatrick, Widower, Tile Manufacturer, with Daughter Mary aged 11, Scholar and a housekeeper. No mention of wife, Isabella.

   Their 12 Children –
1.   Margaret    b. Nov 1824 in Barony/Glasgow City - d. In infancy
2.   Jean   b. Jan 1827 in Glasgow/Glasgow City - d. In infancy
3.   Walter   b. Sep 1828 in Paisley Middle/Renfrew- d. Sep 1888 Glasgow, M. to Elizabeth Campbell in 1848
4.   Arthur   b. Sep 1830 in Glasgow/Glasgow City – d. In Canada, M. to Janet Grindley in 1861 (Canada)
5.   Margaret   b. Sep 1832 in Glasgow/Glasgow City - d. Apr 1909 in Glasgow, M. to Dr William MacKeith in 1854
6.   Jean   b. Feb 1835 in Glasgow/Glasgow City - d. 1905 in Drymen, Stirling, M. to James Strang in 1855
7.   William   b. Abt 1836-37 in Glasgow? Can’t find any info. - d. Dec 1917 in Glasgow, M. to Janet Stewart – this is my McGie link
8.   Ann      b. Feb 839 in Glasgow/Glasgow City - d. In infancy
9.   Isabella   b. Nov 1841 in Erskine/Renfrew – d. Mar 1857 in Royal Infirmary, Glasgow
10.   Janet   b. Dec 1843 in Erskine/Renfrew – d. In infancy
11.   James   b. Dec 1845 in Erskine/Renfrew – d. Unknown
12.   Mary   b. Abt 1950  Can’t find any info. - d. May 1867 in Knockinshannock, Drymen, Stirling

The births of Jean (1827), Margaret (1832), Jean (1835) and Ann (1839) mention an Arthur Gilmour as witness – possible sibling/relative??

The births of Margaret (1832) and Jean 1835) mention a James McGie as witness (possibly William’s brother).

Margaret – 1854 marriage from SP (to William MacKeith) mentions only father William. Looks like mothers names were not recorded in Drymen. 

Isabella – 1857 death from SP – mentions mother Isabella, but she is not mentioned as deceased. ?? Newspaper mentions her death in 1852

Mary – 1867 death from SP – mentions mother Isabella, as deceased.

I also found a ‘memoir’ associated with Margaret (McGie) MacKeith about her life - http://mackeith.net/MacKeithFamily/Margaret_MacKeith.pdf

I would really like to fill in the gaps on Isabella Gilmour and her family in Drymen – especially about their life, the Tileworks  and her death (cause of, etc) in Drymen. Would there be any information in Church records, on burial headstones, etc.

Are there any McGie's still in the area?

Thanking you in advance,

sandir

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Information pls on Isabella Gilmour married to William McGie in 1824
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 28 February 16 10:25 GMT (UK) »
D. 9/7/1852 at Offrance Tile works, Buchlyvie, Drymen, Stirling. I couldn’t find any reference to her death in SP
This is before the start of statutory registration (1855) so there is unlikely to be anything on SP

Quote
I came across a Death notice in a newspaper –
At Offerance Tile Works Buchlivie, on the 9th instant, Isabella Gilmour, aged 45 years, wife of Mr William McGie.
A death in 1852, aged 45, implies a birth in 1806/7.

Quote
The 1841 Census of Erskine – William aged 40 (Head, Tile maker); Isabella aged 30
Ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to 5 years, so this implies a birth in 1806/1811. Consistent with her quoted age at death.

Quote
Also a James Gilmour aged 20, a Tile maker is mentioned – could this be a sibling/cousin?

He could even be a brother of Isabella.

Quote
The 1851 Census of Buchlyvie (Drymen) – William aged 57 (Head, b. Dunbarton, Kilpatrick, Tile manufacturer employing 8 labourers); Isabella, wife, aged 45 (born Renfrew) with 7 children.

Her age implies a birth in 1805/6. The 1851 census was taken on 30 March 1851, and Isabella died on 19 July 1852, which is 1 year 3 months and 19 days later. Therefore she must have had at least one birthday between the census and her death. Therefore at least one of her quoted ages is incorrect.
When you say 'Born Renfrew', do you mean the County of Renfrew or the Parish of Renfrew? Or does the census not say? Why do you think she was born in Erskine? The 1841 census says all of the family were born outside the census county, Renfrewshire.

Quote
The 1861 Census .... No mention of wife, Isabella.
No. The census does not list people no longer living.

Noting that the first four children were Margaret, Jean, Walter and Arthur, and that William's parents were Walter and Jean, I think it is probable that Isabella's parents were Arthur and Margaret.

Quote
The births of Jean (1827), Margaret (1832), Jean (1835) and Ann (1839) mention an Arthur Gilmour as witness – possible sibling/relative??
Yes, definitely worth investigating.

Quote
Margaret – 1854 marriage from SP (to William MacKeith) mentions only father William. Looks like mothers names were not recorded in Drymen. 
It is extremely rare to get a mother's name in a pre-1855 marriage record. Mostly, pre-1855 marriages don't even name the couple's fathers, so finding one with Margaret's father's name is quite a bonus.

Quote
Would there be any information in Church records, on burial headstones, etc.
The Church of Scotland and Roman Catholic records are the basis of the pre-1855 records held by Scotland's People. There are a few more surviving church records from other denominations, but they are not always easy to track down. Some of them are in the National Records of Scotland, but they have mostly not been indexed, and cannot be accessed online. 

The absence of baptism records might suggest that the Gilmours may have belonged to one of these other denominations.

A gravestone is a distinct possibility, but if Isabella's parents were in Renfrew(shire) and she was buried in Drymen, I'd be surprised if her gravestone names her parents.

There is a published booklet of monumental inscriptions in Renfrewshire. Someone may have a copy and be willing to look up Gilmours in Renfrewshire.

If I were you I would see if I could find a death of James Gilmour, son of Arthur Gilmour and Margaret. If his age and occupation fit that of the James in the 1841 census (born 1816/1821) I think that would be strong evidence for Isabella's parentage.

It might also be worth checking deaths of Arthur Gilmours to see if you can find one of roughly the right age with parents Arthur and Margaret.

Speculation - I note with interest a 35-year-old Arthur Gilmour, born at sea, a calico printer in Mearns, Renfrewshire in the 1851 census.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline sandir03

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Information pls on Isabella Gilmour married to William McGie in 1824
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 March 16 00:36 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Forfarian for all your input and suggestions, some of which I had previously followed up on. I will look into the others in the next week or so.

Do you know if Drymen or the surroundings have a cemetery with burials dating back to the 1800's?

Are there any McGies still living in the Drymen area?

Thanks,
     sandir03

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Information pls on Isabella Gilmour married to William McGie in 1824
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 03 March 16 09:05 GMT (UK) »
Do you know if Drymen or the surroundings have a cemetery with burials dating back to the 1800s?
Drymen is a parish in its own right. Therefore it must have (had) a parish kirk and kirkyard. See
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/STI/Drymen

Quote
Are there any McGies still living in the Drymen area?
I do not know. Try the telephone directory
http://www.thephonebook.bt.com/publisha.content/en/search/residential/search.publisha#
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline sandir03

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Information pls on Isabella Gilmour married to William McGie in 1824
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 05 March 16 09:41 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the information above. As I'm not in the UK, I'm not familiar with some of the web sites to search or the various areas/parishes, etc and it helps to be pointed in the right direction.

Offline Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,972
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.