Author Topic: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851  (Read 2469 times)

Offline Ferfinds

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Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« on: Monday 14 March 16 02:55 GMT (UK) »
I am researching John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson who married in Grantown Free Church 23 Jan 1851. I have the OPR of the marriage from Scotland's People:
O.P.R. Marriages 096/0B 0030 0150 Duthil and Rothiemurchus: 23/01/1851 FRASER, John and ANDERSON, Betty:
John Fraser Bridge End, Dava, Parish of Edinkillie and Betty Anderson Knock of Grenash were married 23rd January 1851 by Rev W Fraser F.C. Grantown.

I consider myself lucky to have that record as I believe Grantown FC records were destroyed in a fire at the manse in 1869. This probably explains why the birth of my Great Grandmother Christina Fraser born about 1852 cannot be found on Scotland's People, nor another female child born about 1851 and died before the family emigrated to Australia 24 Sep 1853.

I have been able to find Betty Anderson's birth 8 Feb 1824, Duthill, on Family Search. She had one more child in Australia and died the same year in 1855.
John Fraser is proving more elusive.
I thought I should be able to find John and Betty in the 1851 census but haven't been able to so far.

John Fraser worked as a butcher in Australia. I believe Elizabeth's brother and his family brought up Christina and the baby John.

I haven't found the death of John Fraser in Australia yet.
Any ideas on how I might find more about him in Scotland welcome. He would have been born about 1822.

Offline ev

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #1 on: Monday 14 March 16 08:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi ,

Quote
John Fraser Bridge End, Dava, Parish of Edinkillie

This may be of interest -
1851 Census , Bridgend of Dava , Edinkillie , Morayshire.
John Fraser 20 farmer of 3 A. born Cromdale Morayshire
Elisabeth Fraser 26 farmer's wife born Cromdale Inverness-shire
( http://www.freecen.org.uk/ )



ev
Census information Crown copyright , All Census information from transcriptions - check original records , Familysearch/IGI is a finding tool only - check original records

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #2 on: Monday 14 March 16 08:52 GMT (UK) »
A minor niggle.

Just because they were married by the Free Kirk minister does not suggest that the wedding ceremony was held in the church building. The majority of marriages at that time took place elsewhere. The traditional place was the bride's home, but if she had no parents, or was married a long way from home, the ceremony was often performed in her employer's house, or in the manse.

You are indeed very lucky that the Church of Scotland clerk recorded the marriage in the C of S records. This was supposed to be the norm, but unfortunately there are many examples of marriages, and baptisms, going unrecorded.

As for John's parents, at least you now know that he was born in the parish of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie, and that (assuming his age in the census is correct) he was born in 1830 or 1831.

There is only one John Fraser in the index to baptisms in Cromdale Inverallan and Advie between 1829 and 1832. This is the son of Donald Fraser and Marjory McGrigor, who was born on 21 October 1831 and would therefore have been aged 9 on the date of the 1841 census. However he is with his parents at Corshellach in the 1851 census, therefore he is not your John Fraser. (This family seems to be missing from the 1841 census, at least on FreeCEN.)

There are three John Frasers in the 1841 of approximately the right age.
One aged 9, in the household of Alexander Fraser at Wester Achnafairn, where is also an Alexander Fraser, aged 11.
One aged 10, in the household of Donald Gordon at Bynaballich.
One aged 11, in the Orphan Hospital, where there are also James Fraser, 12, and Margaret Fraser, 10.

If the ages of all the John Frasers in the 1841 and 1851 censuses are accurate, yours would be either the second or the third one, or just possibly another one altogether, born in Cromdale but moved to another parish by 1841, though I have not found a likely candidate.

The only suggestion I have is to contact the Highland Genealogy Centre in Inverness, and ask them if there is any record in either the Kirk Session or the Parochial Board records of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie, or any records of the Orphan Hospital, that might shed any light on your John's origins.

It doesn't help that some parts of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie are in Moray, and some in Inverness-shire, and that people born in that parish might say their place of birth was any one of those three parts of the parish, or indeed Grantown-on-Spey.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Ferfinds

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 March 16 08:56 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks, ev

This looks very likely, except for his age, which may have been mis-transcribed.
I will have to get some credits and order the image from Scotland's People.

Today I ordered the image for the only likely death of John in Victoria, Australia. There was not much information as he died in hospital (of tuberculosis) and parent's names and marriage/children, occupation were rendered "unknown". He died 19 Feb 1875 and at least they knew his age which was given as 52.

Jennifer


Offline Ferfinds

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #4 on: Monday 14 March 16 08:57 GMT (UK) »
A minor niggle.

Just because they were married by the Free Kirk minister does not suggest that the wedding ceremony was held in the church building. The majority of marriages at that time took place elsewhere. The traditional place was the bride's home, but if she had no parents, or was married a long way from home, the ceremony was often performed in her employer's house, or in the manse.

You are indeed very lucky that the Church of Scotland clerk recorded the marriage in the C of S records. This was supposed to be the norm, but unfortunately there are many examples of marriages, and baptisms, going unrecorded.

As for John's parents, at least you now know that he was born in the parish of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie, and that (assuming his age in the census is correct) he was born in 1830 or 1831.

There is only one John Fraser in the index to baptisms in Cromdale Inverallan and Advie between 1829 and 1832. This is the son of Donald Fraser and Marjory McGrigor, who was born on 21 October 1831 and would therefore have been aged 9 on the date of the 1841 census. However he is with his parents at Corshellach in the 1851 census, therefore he is not your John Fraser. (This family seems to be missing from the 1841 census, at least on FreeCEN.)

There are three John Frasers in the 1841 of approximately the right age.
One aged 9, in the household of Alexander Fraser at Wester Achnafairn, where is also an Alexander Fraser, aged 11.
One aged 10, in the household of Donald Gordon at Bynaballich.
One aged 11, in the Orphan Hospital, where there are also James Fraser, 12, and Margaret Fraser, 10.

If the ages of all the John Frasers in the 1841 and 1851 censuses are accurate, yours would be either the second or the third one, or just possibly another one altogether, born in Cromdale but moved to another parish by 1841, though I have not found a likely candidate.

The only suggestion I have is to contact the Highland Genealogy Centre in Inverness, and ask them if there is any record in either the Kirk Session or the Parochial Board records of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie, or any records of the Orphan Hospital, that might shed any light on your John's origins.

It doesn't help that some parts of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie are in Moray, and some in Inverness-shire, and that people born in that parish might say their place of birth was any one of those three parts of the parish, or indeed Grantown-on-Spey.

Many thanks for all that.

For many reason I think the age of John of 20 in 1851 is incorrect. I believe he was more likely at least 26.

Jennifer

Offline Ferfinds

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #5 on: Monday 25 April 16 15:21 BST (UK) »
Since my last post I have obtained an image of the 1851 census which does indeed seem to show that John Fraser was 20, no matter how much I try to make it something older.

The reasons I doubt it are that when he emigrated to Australia in 1853, he gave his age as 32 and his wife's as 31. The family were unassisted so he must have paid his own passage and I see no reason why he would lower his age. When he died in 1875 his age was given as 52, but from hospital admission records I believe he was 53. In any case, both these dates indicate a birth date of 1821, 1822 or 1833.

The census gives Cromdale as the birthplace of both John and Elizabeth but I have Elizabeth's OPR which says:

Anderson and Guthrie
Betty daughter of John Anderson in Knock of Grenash and of his wife Christian Guthrie was born the 8th and Baptd the 29th February 1824

ANDERSON, Betty [O.P.R. Births 096/0B 0030 0018 Duthil and Rothiemurchus]

So unless I have the wrong couple in the census, it seems to have inconsistencies that don't help me to go forward.

John had one son (born in Australia) who he also called John. I am not sure of naming patterns, whether the younger John was named after his father or his father's father.
There was a female child born in Scotland who must have died young and then there was Christina who was 14 months old in 1853 when they emigrated. I can find no record of the Scotland baptisms, probably because they may have been performed by the Free Church minister.

Jennifer

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #6 on: Monday 25 April 16 16:52 BST (UK) »
Hmmm...

In the 1841 census there are at Grenash John Anderson, 60; John Anderson, 30; William Anderson, 20; Christian Anderson, 60; Betty Anderson, 16; Robert Stuart, 8.

In the same enumeration district are Delephaber (now Dalfaber), Aviemore and Easter and Wester Aviemore, Kinchurdy, Avielochan, Laganligh-Ghobhain, Kinvechy, Docharn, Deshar, Drummullie, Lynechurn, Gartinbeg, Gallovie and others, most of which can be recognised around the village of Aviemore (though Betty and her family would never recognise it now; the village did not exist until well after the railway had reached Strathspey in the 1850s). So I am 99.9% confident that the early and mid-19th century Knock of Grenash is likely to be the present-day Knockgranish, just north of Aviemore. See http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=57.2117&lon=-3.8177&layers=5

Also http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NH9014 for the modern map and some photographs.

This district is in the parish of Duthil and Rothiemurchus, and if Betty was born there and lived there all her life until her marriage, it is odd that the census should record her place of birth as Cromdale, which is on the side of the parish of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie that is furthest away from Aviemore.

Unless .... the parish boundaries in some places were rather convoluted, with enclaves of one parish inside another, and parishes split between counties. Cromdale Inverallan and Advie is certainly split between Moray and Inverness-shire, but there is nothing in either the Statistical Account of Scotland or the New Statistical Account of Scotland to suggest the existence of enclaves, or of any revision of boundaries to rationalise them.

Also perhaps curious that if she was baptised and married as Betty, that she is recorded as Elisabeth in the census.

I wonder whether the inconsistencies could be explained by mistranscription by the enumerator who transferred the details from the household schedule to the enumeration book?

Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Ferfinds

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 26 April 16 01:53 BST (UK) »
\
I wonder whether the inconsistencies could be explained by mistranscription by the enumerator who transferred the details from the household schedule to the enumeration book?

Thanks for your thoughts and the links.

I didn't know there was a step from the household schedule to the enumeration book. I guess that left the way open to some errors. And I also guess that the household schedules were not kept.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 26 April 16 07:55 BST (UK) »
I also guess that the household schedules were not kept.
Correct.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.