Author Topic: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE  (Read 1815 times)

Offline Indiana.59

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Re: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE
« Reply #27 on: Friday 28 September 18 16:13 BST (UK) »
Elo Periwinkled

I also wonder why Glenmore (Donald Shaw) and his father were buried at Tomintoul if they were from Inchrory according to the book Glenmore (Donald Shaw) moved to a place just up from  Aviemore . . .

Inchrory would have been consisdered as in the parish of Kirkmichael as it is on the banks of the Avon.  Glenmore is just over the mountains from Inchrory, 12 miles or so as the eagle flies and they would have both been very remote in the mid 19th Century. If I was a Shaw of Inchrory I wouldn't want to be buried too far from the Avon and the rest of my kin. 

Interesting that you had people in Gaulrig, my 3x g grandmother was living there before marrying but she was a Cameron not a McGregor.  I haven't investigated the Camerons who came before her yet.
 I'll ask mum or my uncle if they remember the original Delachule burning down, but it probably happened after they left the village, so they won't remember unless someone was badly hurt.

Well - Periwinkled, putting it that way I could not be happier if no one can remember the fire - if it meant everyone was ok . . .  :)

Camerons - in 1795 my grt grandfather x4 William Shaw 1st son Donald was born at Dalynlion just across the river from Delachule - no relation here but one of the sponsors was a Lilly Cameron . . .

Note just above the birth of Donald at Dalnlyon in 1795 the Stuart living in Delachule prior to our lot moving in some years later . . . 

Also while trying to find my grt grandfather x4 father William Shaw father presumed Donald I came across this in 1763 - a marriage of a Donald Shaw to a Janet Cameron . . .

The reason I have not quite dismissed this Donald Shaw as my grt grandfathers x4 father is I could not find any births from this marriage after 1763 and wondered if it could actually be a 2nd marriage - but as my grt grandfather x4 William Shaw presumed father Donald Shaw was born in 1753/54 the case is open on that one . . .

Cheers . . .

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE
« Reply #28 on: Friday 28 September 18 16:51 BST (UK) »
Indiana 59, re your reply #12 about Protestant clergy officiating at a marriage of Catholics.
The information you quoted was a reply to a question posed in the 20th century. It's not relevant to a marriage which happened in the 19th century in Britain.
The official stance of Catholic Church regarding marriage of Catholics has changed several times during the past 500 years depending on era and country concerned.

Catholicism was an outlawed religion in Britain after the Reformation in 16th century until late 18th when concessions began. The Catholic Church recognised as valid marriages of Catholics which were conducted according to the civil law in the country in which they lived. Civil law relating to marriage in the 4 countries which constituted the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland varied in the 19th century and altered at different times.
It was in 1909 that the Catholic Church applied the Canon Law on marriage worldwide, requiring a Catholic to marry in the presence of a Catholic priest. R.C. marriage rules were modified in 1980s.

I'm not familiar with marriage customs of Catholics living in Scotland during 19thC because I don't know where my Scottish Catholic ancestors came from. My English Catholic ancestors who married between 1754 and 1837 generally had 2 wedding ceremonies. Only the marriage at the Anglican parish church was legal. They always had the Catholic ceremony first, usually the previous day. One couple had a gap of 6 weeks between ceremonies.

I hope this explains a complex subject.

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE
« Reply #29 on: Friday 28 September 18 17:20 BST (UK) »
However I see that there was a Presbyterian minister as well as a Catholic priest  at the service so that may tell quite a different story. It would be interesting to follow this one up.  Isn't family history  exciting?

As I understand it, from reading peoples' transcripts and peering at the image, Rev. Carmichael, the priest conducted the marriage, with the duke and the minister as witnesses. I wonder if this was how they normally did weddings. It would be interesting to see records of other marriages there around same time. Was the minister just keeping himself in favour with the Duke?

Offline Indiana.59

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Re: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE
« Reply #30 on: Friday 28 September 18 18:25 BST (UK) »
However I see that there was a Presbyterian minister as well as a Catholic priest  at the service so that may tell quite a different story. It would be interesting to follow this one up.  Isn't family history  exciting?

As I understand it, from reading peoples' transcripts and peering at the image, Rev. Carmichael, the priest conducted the marriage, with the duke and the minister as witnesses. I wonder if this was how they normally did weddings. It would be interesting to see records of other marriages there around the same time. Was the minister just keeping himself in favour with the Duke?

Aha - yes I did a check on the same scale and no this was the only one that came up like this - people will just not accept that the Duke and my grt grandfather x3 were, in fact, great buds . . .  ;)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 30 September 18 01:09 BST (UK) »
Related thread for anyone interested in this family;

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744158.27

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Periwinkled

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Re: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 09 October 18 22:07 BST (UK) »
Indiana, Mum said the original Delachule burnt down sometime in the late 50s or 60s but was already abandoned and quite dilapidated. 
When I get round to investigating the Camerons I may well be looking at your entry here again. 

By the by, when my 2xg grandfather was baptised by Donald Carmichael at  ceremony in 1826 (his parents are (Prots) in a Roman Catholic ceremony at the Cults, one of the sponsors was Alexr McKenzie of Dalchule which I think must be the Dalchoille I referred to earlier on in this thread as that is on the Avon.   There is a baptism further down the page of Donald, son of William Shaw Milton of Inverourie, sponsors Alexr and Jane Shaw of Delichule, which must surely be the Delachule you are referring to on the Conglass so these must be your Shaws!  On the parish register of the birth there is a Mary Shaw, wife of Archibald Stuart of Balchruicht, who had a son John.  Also a Euphemia Shaw to Wm Shaw and his spouse Grace Stuart in Milltown of Inverourie.  If these are also your Shaws and you don't have the image I can send to you.

Is it possible that the Duke of Gordon was at your Shaw's wedding because it was a good opportunity to meet many of his tenants?  Tenants whom, incidentally, he was determined not to enfranchise - he bitterly opposed the Great  Reform Bill and only weeks later was one of only 22 peers who opposed it in the House of Lords.  It was passed and the resulting Reform Act gave the vote to any tenant paying at least 10 per annum rent.  Certainly my 3xg grandfather would have qualified as he was paying 14 in 1809.

Offline Indiana.59

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Re: I HAVE A SCOTLAND MARRIAGE 1832 I NEED HELP TO DECIPHER ~ PLEASE
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 09 October 18 23:46 BST (UK) »
Indiana, Mum said the original Delachule burnt down sometime in the late 50s or 60s but was already abandoned and quite dilapidated. 
When I get round to investigating the Camerons I may well be looking at your entry here again. 

By the by, when my 2xg grandfather was baptised by Donald Carmichael at  ceremony in 1826 (his parents are (Prots) in a Roman Catholic ceremony at the Cults, one of the sponsors was Alexr McKenzie of Dalchule which I think must be the Dalchoille I referred to earlier on in this thread as that is on the Avon.   There is a baptism further down the page of Donald, son of William Shaw Milton of Inverourie, sponsors Alexr and Jane Shaw of Delichule, which must surely be the Delachule you are referring to on the Conglass so these must be your Shaws!  On the parish register of the birth there is a Mary Shaw, wife of Archibald Stuart of Balchruicht, who had a son John.  Also a Euphemia Shaw to Wm Shaw and his spouse Grace Stuart in Milltown of Inverourie.  If these are also your Shaws and you don't have the image I can send to you.

Is it possible that the Duke of Gordon was at your Shaw's wedding because it was a good opportunity to meet many of his tenants?  Tenants whom, incidentally, he was determined not to enfranchise - he bitterly opposed the Great  Reform Bill and only weeks later was one of only 22 peers who opposed it in the House of Lords.  It was passed and the resulting Reform Act gave the vote to any tenant paying at least 10 per annum rent.  Certainly my 3xg grandfather would have qualified as he was paying 14 in 1809.

Yus Periwinkled those are my rellies - possible that is Delachule - as there were more families on the land and we are connected to the McKenzies from Braemar - looking at the site map years ago there were more cottages on the land down by the river . . .

Great news on Delachule - that no one was in it - maybe someone just got sick of it laying there in disrepair and burnt it down . . .

The Duke was local with everyone - we have no claim to being special - he was happy to pop into all the farms locally - but my Alexander Shaw did game keeping for him and also attended Glen Mullie just across the river to the right of Delachule - where another Alexander Shaw resided - a retired Military man - who also had a son called William Shaw - no idea what the Duke's wife was like - but he was always happy to be down on the farm with the lads - he he he . . .

Confusing isn't it . . .

In regard of swapping certs - I will contact you with my e-mail address so you can tell just what surnames that relate to you to see if also I have on any of my lists to pass on . . .

Yes William Shaw was a brother to Alexander and he married a Grace Stuart daughter Euphemia Shaw named after her Grandmother Euphemia Grant . . .

It is all making for interesting stuff here and look forward to hearing more from your side too as everyone was linked one way or another back in the days . . .

And thanks for that bit of information on Delachule - good on your mum - cheers . . .