John Bowman c.1821-1863

[dmbtmartin]

Hi all,

while trying to find some evidence for an old family story (of my friend's) that his gt grandmother was descended from, as she is said to have put it, "gypsy folk", I came across one John Bowman who was born abt 1821 in Westmorland, and I then find him on the 1851 census in Kendal as a whitesmith, and in 1861 in Preston with the same trade. Was thinking whitesmith is probably a synonym for a tinker, and that he would be a good candidate for one of the "gypsy folk" alluded to.

I think he married one Agnes Inman in 1845 in Kendal, before leaving her and beginning a new family with one Alice Beckett in Preston, in about 1857.

There appear to be 2 John Bowmans born in 1821 in Kendal.

Just wondering if anyone with some experience could ascribe some likelihood to John Bowman being of gyspy stock, and, if so, whether they might have some further info, or at least nudge me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance, David. [Insert: smiley facey]

[suzard]

from the census it doesn't appear John Bowman is a traveller
on both census he is in a residence not a tent or caravan (as is usual in travellers)
Agnes is a servant at a farm in 1861 and stating she is unmarried

Suz

[trish1120]

I agree with suzard.
A Whitesmith is a  skilled Trade so unlikely to have Gypsy connections.

How did you trace your friends ancestors back to this John?

[dmbtmartin]

Hi guys, thanks very much for your feedback. Perhaps the gypsy story was apocryphal or its origins lie elsewhere.

John Bowman and Alice Beckett had a daughter, Hannah Bowman b. 1860 (and two other children.) On the children's baptism records John's occupation is given as 'smith'.  Hannah Bowman then married one Abraham Danvers in 1885 in Preston, and they had a daughter Elizabeth b. 1885; she is the maternal grandmother of my friend - and she's the on who reported that she was descended from "gypsy folk". I thought John Bowman was the best candidate for this, as I'd read somewhere that Bowman can be a GRT name.  I also suspected that Whitesmith may have been a more grandiose term for a tinker. I thought I'd found him on the 1841 census at Appleby - which has obvious GRT associations, but this was another John Bowman. I felt he'd demonstrated a certain degree of itinerancy by abandoning Agnes and moving to Preston, and his abode at Clark's Yard was more of a ramshackle slum than the residence of an skilled craftsman - and that's why I thought he was my man, as it were.  But all this may amount to little more than confirmation bias on my part, and I'm seeing things that aren't really there.  [insert: smiley face]

[suzard]

Hi guys, thanks very much for your feedback. Perhaps the gypsy story was apocryphal or its origins lie elsewhere.

 I thought I'd found him on the 1841 census at Appleby - which has obvious GRT associations, but this was another John Bowman. I  [insert: smiley face]

If the John Bowman you found in Appleby 1841 is this one
Barwise Hall Hoff Appleby in Westmorland
John Bowman 20 ag lab yes
HO107 1156 5 10

then he hadn't any "gypsy" connections either - he was working on a farm and married Sarah and later became a woodman - no signs of being a "traveller"

Very often in families there are tales of ancestors being "gypsies" - in my research it often turns out to be nothing more than a Romantic notion - or  through using the term "gypsy" loosely as someone who moves around

Maybe the story was founded on John leaving his wife and moving to Lancashire to be with Alice - even present day when I was younger I moved around the country quite a lot and was told " that's your gypsy blood coming out" - all complete make believe on the family's part

Suz 

[suzard]

Hi guys, thanks very much for your feedback. Perhaps the gypsy story was apocryphal or its origins lie elsewhere.

 his abode at Clark's Yard was more of a ramshackle slum than the residence of an skilled craftsman - and that's why I thought he was my man, as it were.  But all this may amount to little more than confirmation bias on my part, and I'm seeing things that aren't really there.  [insert: smiley face]

If you look at occupations of neighbours in Clarks Yard - there is a shopman a boot & shoe maker people in various types of employment in the cotton industry - so not really " more of a ramshackle slum  than the residence of a skilled craftsman"

Suz

[trish1120]

I see John/Alice had Children Hannah 1860/Thomas 1861/Robert 1862
John is then Buried 18 Jan 1863 age 41

I presume this is the Baptism you have for John.

JOHN Bowman Christened  6 June 1821, Kendal, Westmoreland
Parents THOMAS/HANNAH
Siblings;
AGNES 2 March 1820
JOSEPH 17 July 1823
ISAAC 18 Dec 1825
NANCY 4 July 1827
THOMAS 6 May 1829
MARGARET 9 March 1831 (may have died)
ROBERT 12 June 1833
HANNAH 6 Jan 1836
(Familysearch.Org)

This leads to this 1841 Census in Kendal;
HO107/1165/5/Kendal
Thomas Bowman, 40, Coal Agent
Hannah Bowman, 40
Joseph Bowman, 15
Nancy Bowman, 14
Thomas Bowman, 12
Robert Bowman, 7
Hannah Bowman, 5
Jacob Bowman, 3
Elizth Bowman, 1

I cant find Baptisms for Jacob/Eliza.


The other one 11 November 1821 has Parents as JOHN/HANNAH
I havent researched this Family.

By 1851 Hannah Bowman has remarried and living in Chorlton, Lancs;
John Coward, 55
HANNAH Coward, 50, Wife, born Kendal, Westmorland**
Ann Coward, 25
Elizabeth Coward, 18
William Coward, 5
John Blackburn, 23
Jane Blackburn, 22
Elizabeth Blackburn, 2
Thomas Blackburn, 1 Mth
Jacob BOWMAN, 13, Son in Law (Stepson)
Elizabeth BOWMAN, 10, Daug in Law (Step/daug)

MARRIAGE;
20 November 1849
St John's Church, Preston, Lancashire, England
Hannah BOWMAN, age 52 (1797), Widowed, Father Joseph SISSON
John COWARD, age 52, Widowed, Father WILLIAM Coward
(F/S.Org)


MARRIAGE;
9 February 1819,Kendal, Westmoreland, England
Thos BOWMAN to Hannah SISSON
(F/S.Org)

So I can see no Gypsy connection.

Trish

[trish1120]

1841 Census in Walton on the Hill. Lancs has a John BOWMAN, age 20, Apprentice Blacksmith;
Richard Watson, 20
John Bowman, 20, not born in County
Joseph Smith, 15
HO107/519/6/ Walton On The Hill

[dmbtmartin]

Wow! Thank you so much for your detective work, Trish! Especially at so early an hour yesterday morning. This seems a very strong case for my John Bowman indeed, and therefore the "gypsy folk" origins theory drops further down the probability ratings, and sits within a hair's breadth of total refutation.

It goes without saying providing evidence that works to negate a hypothesis is just as valuable and interesting as that which serves to support it. So I'm very much obliged indeed. Many thanks.