Author Topic: Births Deaths and Marriages  (Read 3965 times)

Offline tomba

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Births Deaths and Marriages
« on: Wednesday 27 April 16 04:41 BST (UK) »
I found this information about marriages on the web, can someone explain if this is correct and was it the same deal for births and deaths and for all parishes

It seems common in Kirkcudbright that marriage Banns were practiced. Banns were a method of certifying a marriage used until the 19th century. They were declarations read on three consecutive Sundays or Holy Days during Divine Service, immediately before the Offertory. Any minor needed to provide proof of parent's or guardian's consent. At least one of the marrying couple had to be resident in the parish which they wished to be married in; the banns of the other party were read in his/her parish of residence, and a certificate provided from the clergyman stating it was properly done. Banns were good for 3 months. The wedding had to take place in the church between 8 am and noon
It appears from the marriage records in Urr that because they married first in Kirkpatrick Durham, they had to be re-registered in Urr as well as pay the local parish dues. One of the first acts of a Scot when he moved from one parish to another was to transfer his certificate of church membership, his 'testimonial'


McGuffog, Grieve, Broadfoot, Flett, Rigg, Riddick, Gillies, Jobson, Gillies, Bath, Hanna, Betterridge, Ellem,

Offline Chilternbirder

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 27 April 16 14:01 BST (UK) »
I can't vouch for your last sentence but the reading of banns is still required in the Church of England and was only abolished by the Church of Scotland in 1977.  Restrictions on the times when weddings may take place were common to both kingdoms and only recently abolished.

The availability of records of banns in Scotland is a great help and has filled in gaps for me where the actual record of the wedding isn't available.
Crabb from Laurencekirk / Fordoun and Scurry from mid Essex

Offline RJ_Paton

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 27 April 16 15:07 BST (UK) »
Banns were common in all parishes - if the bride and groom came from different parishes the Banns had to be called in both Parishes. They would normally be read on three consecutive Sundays but could be "rushed through" in a single day.

The residency requirement was introduced to try and deter or reduce the number of runaways from England marrying in the Scottish Borders areas.

A minor always needed parental permission but the definition of a minor varied over the years culminating in the legal limit of 16.

Marriage in the Church - Not if it was a presbyterian Church (Church of Scotland and any of the dissenting Churches) - marriage in the church building was extremely rare in Presbyterian Churches until the 20th Century, the most common places of marriage were the Ministers own home (the Manse) or the Brides Home (In Scotland it is not the place where the marriage takes place that is licensed/authorised it is the person conducting the ceremony)

It is unlikely that a marriage in England would require re registration in Scotland - although if it meant they got to charge a fee I wouldn't put it past them.

Transfer of Church Membership - this was often done although you could attend Church without becoming a member which held certain responsibilities. It also helped show you "were of good character" if hunting for work or a place to stay.

Births - some Parishes kept excellent records while others are extremely poor. There was also a period where a fee was introduced for all services and this led to a major dip in the number of children baptised. (or sometimes a flurry of several family members at the one time)

Deaths - possibly the biggest let down of all pre 1855 Civil Registration records in Scotland - in many cases the only records consist of the financial recordings of the Rental of the Mortcloth (a coffin covering). Although to be fair some Parishes kept better records than others

Throw into the mix the various splits amongst the Churches and that many records have been lost or destroyed we are I suppose lucky to have what we have.

Offline RJ_Paton

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 27 April 16 17:44 BST (UK) »
The first post refers to Urr in Kirkcudbright and if you look at the available records for that Parish it compares favourably with Twyneholm with regards to Births and marriages but is one of those that fails miserably regarding deaths


Offline tomba

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 28 April 16 00:00 BST (UK) »
thankyou for that I really appreciate the help I get from here, its really hard tracing family from another country, and these McGuffogs are doing my head in, its not only about tracing the family but you have to get your head around these Scottish rules and regulation and the history is unbelievable thankyou again
McGuffog, Grieve, Broadfoot, Flett, Rigg, Riddick, Gillies, Jobson, Gillies, Bath, Hanna, Betterridge, Ellem,

Offline tomba

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 28 April 16 00:11 BST (UK) »
So my issue here is that the  record from Scotlands People shows that Margaret McGuffog lawful daughter of James McGuffog and Ann Broadfoot was born at Nethertown 2nd December 1837
There are also entries for three other children of James and Ann on the same page Agnes born 14th April 1847, John 8th March 1849 and Robert 8th January 1852

On her marriage certificate to Robert Thomson it states that she was born in Drumore Lochrutton and registered in Kirkpatrick Durham, so it seems that Margaret was born in Drumore Lochrutton and her birth registered at Kirkpatrick Durham.  It would appear that Margaret’s birth could fall into the Registers of Neglected Entries category, along with her brothers and sisters.  but I cannot find any evidence of her father James McGuffog being in Drumore Lochrutton any hints where I might be able to look this was before the census records.

McGuffog, Grieve, Broadfoot, Flett, Rigg, Riddick, Gillies, Jobson, Gillies, Bath, Hanna, Betterridge, Ellem,

Offline RJ_Paton

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 28 April 16 20:19 BST (UK) »
On her marriage certificate to Robert Thomson it states that she was born in Drumore Lochrutton and registered in Kirkpatrick Durham, so it seems that Margaret was born in Drumore Lochrutton and her birth registered at Kirkpatrick Durham.  It would appear that Margaret’s birth could fall into the Registers of Neglected Entries category, along with her brothers and sisters.  but I cannot find any evidence of her father James McGuffog being in Drumore Lochrutton any hints where I might be able to look this was before the census records.

You don't say which faith or form of worship the family followed.

The online OPR's at Scotlands People are those held by the Church of Scotland although entry in them does not guarantee with 100% certainty that the family were of that Church. The ministers in each parish were instructed at different times to record the details of all in their parish - some did this and some did not.

There were a number of schisms within the Church of Scotland over Church Doctrine which resulted in a number of congregations leaving (the main breach came in 1843) and the records of these "dissenting" churches are not online.
Another Church is the Episcopalian Church (the Scottish offshoot of the Church of England) given the family connections to England that you refer to in your older post. Unfortunately again these records are not available online

With regard to the RNE this was introduced just after the introduction of Civil registration and its primary purpose is to record those births missed from OPR's between 1801 and 1854 - the problem there is that the entries were only created if for some reason the person required official written proof of their birth.

As to Margarets birth being in one place and also recorded in another - it's possible that she may have returned to her parents to have the children while her husband remained at their home address.

Unfortunately the answers to this particular brick wall are not yet available online and will require various searches of
1. the Kirk Session records for the different parishes to see if there was any record involving them.
2. If they owned or sold land the Sasine records may hold further information
3. as might the Retours of Heirs if they inherited land.

Offline tomba

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #7 on: Friday 29 April 16 00:41 BST (UK) »
Thank you for that info, Margarets married at Meikle Cocklick after Banns were solemnized according to the rites & ceremonies of the Established Church of Scotland, most records I have mention the established church of Scotland so it seems that  this was their church. I am presuming that Drumore is a Dwelling, from what I have found, but I could be wrong. anyway I guess
that is just another brick wall I will have to keep looking I seem to be accumulating many brick walls??

Thankyou again

McGuffog, Grieve, Broadfoot, Flett, Rigg, Riddick, Gillies, Jobson, Gillies, Bath, Hanna, Betterridge, Ellem,

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Births Deaths and Marriages
« Reply #8 on: Friday 29 April 16 01:53 BST (UK) »
This may be of use (Drumore)....scroll down to 1837

http://www.oldscottish.com/lochrutton.html

The spelling may also be Drummore & seems to have been a Farm?

https://canmore.org.uk/site/65030/drummore-farm

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hjg/

Annie
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