Author Topic: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please  (Read 2174 times)

Offline Cell

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Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« on: Thursday 28 April 16 00:46 BST (UK) »
Hi,
I'm a bit confused (an understatement  ;D)and would like some ideas, perhaps I'm missing something obvious:

In 1944 my grandmother's brother Thomas Purdy was injured in Normandy and hospitalised in England and then in Belfast when he was 25. There is a  big report in the Larne Observer about his exploits 31st aug, accompanied by a photo of him and address, and mother's name (  100% definitely him, I know what he looked like as I have photos of him and all the other details like address is right too).

 My problem is that the report mentions a nephew of his and that the nephew died in action. Nephew is  Wilnor Crawford who lived in Moat street (see below at  attached snip). Wilnor Crawford died  14/6/1944 (I've traced his death, and he is also mentioned in Memorial in the papers) , father is John  and mother Elizabeth.

So I initially guessed Elizabeth Crawford is Thomas's and my grandmother's eldest sister - Thomas  and my grandmother does have an older sister Elizabeth (Lizzie) but she was born in 1903 ( she is the only one of the siblings I haven't managed to find out what happened to her- I have a photo of her, but nothing else, besides her birth and her in the censuses with her parents and siblings)

The problem is Elizabeth Crawford dies in 1938 ( I have  the death cert and also news paper reports of her husband and children remembering their mother "in Memorial)) - BUT her death cert, states her age as 59 .. argh!! (her son Robert was present at death, and she died in hospital)
which would make her born in 1879  - if this is her true age  that is on her death cert and not an error with her age, Elizabeth Crawford can not be Thomas's sister ( Thomas Purdy mother Mary Elizabeth McNeill was born in 1876 and only married in 1899, his father was a bachelor on marriage, so no first marriage ,although he is old enough to have a first - he was born in 1853).
 Elizabeth and John  Crawford's son  Wilnor Crawford  was born in 1923, so I can't get his birth cert online to see what his mother', Elizabeth's  maiden name is. I've got a few siblings for Wilnor, but no birth dates ( siblings names came from various newspaper reports of his family remembering Wilmot)
(Thomas Purdy was born in 1919)
The only things that I can think of is that maybe it could be his great Nephew, ie a 1st cousin once removed etc -which would make Elizabeth Crawford either a McNeill, or a White, ( doubt if it is a White, as Thomas's grandmother was an Elizabeth, I doubt if she had a sister also called Elizabeth too). I've rulled out Thomas's paternal side ( although perhaps I shouldn't) - I think I've just confused myself!

I've tried looking for a marriage between Purdy and Crawford, there doesn't seem to be one.
I've attached a small snippet ( just the relevant bit and not the whole article - due to copyright rules )

Can anyone suggest how to go about getting Wilnor Crawford's mother ( Elizabeth Crawford), maiden name , without applying to GRONI for it to be sent by snail name and paying the full wack for the full certified cert of Wilmot's birth in 1923, which I'm trying to avoid doing - which even then may be a waste of money if Elizabeth is not his mother( but step mother)
Or can anyone find a marriage for John Crawford and an Elizabeth "something" that could be them ( John was a bricklayer - according to Elizabeth's death)

Thanks' for  reading  and any help :)



Purdy-Loughconnelly
McNeill-Loughconnelly & Broughshane
Graham -Derry,Ballymoney,Carrickfergus & Ballymena
White-Broughshane
Boyd-Ballymoney
Lloyd Llangfiangel ar arth(Pencader,Llainwen)
Roberts,Lloyd, Hopkin, Davies Carmarthenshire
Parker Oystermouth/Mumbles.
Carlsen (also called Carlson & Karlson )B in Former Russia (Finland) & Swansea S.Wales.
Butler family Llangyfelach (Clydach & Ynystawe)
Quarman Bitton & S.Wales

Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 28 April 16 10:04 BST (UK) »
In Emerald Ancestors free search you can search marriages with a name and it will show year, district and first name(s) of spouse, so I had a look (GRONI search results in brackets).
John Crawford (1902 Ballymena) Elizabeth [28 Oct., Elizabeth Wasson]
John Crawford (1909 Ballymena) Elizabeth Crawford [14 Dec.1909]
John Crawford (1915 Larne) Elsie [18 Sept., Elsie Eddie]
John Crawford (1917 Ballymena) Elizabeth [20 Oct., Lizzie Nixon]

What were the names of Wilnor's siblings that you've found so far?

This article lists a brother Jack-
www.ballymenatimes.com/news/your-community/nostalgia/crawford-wilnor-ww2-virtual-memorial-1-1905823
This excerpt says son of John & late Elizabeth

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Offline myluck!

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 28 April 16 12:07 BST (UK) »
This article lists a brother Jack-
www.ballymenatimes.com/news/your-community/nostalgia/crawford-wilnor-ww2-virtual-memorial-1-1905823
This excerpt says son of John & late Elizabeth

aghadowey's attachment also states that "his father served with the Royal Engieers in the last war" his army record, if available, may state more about him and his family

The Ballymena Observer has a death notice in 1944 which does not mention his mother, she perhaps predeceased him; it does state brothers, sisters, brothers-in-law, sisters-in-law, nephews and nieces which implies he may have been a younger member of a family of at least five.
In the following years there are In Memoriam adverts that are from his father and sister May and her family at 59 Moat Road as; his sister Lizzie and her family; and his cousin Sgt Wm McClean of 57 Moat Road which may be a way of searching - none mention a mother
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 28 April 16 13:26 BST (UK) »
57 Moat Rd., Ballymena:
McCart Robert John of 57 Moat Road Ballymena county Antrim yarn dresser died 26 June 1936 Administration Belfast 14 August to Sarah McCart the widow. Effects Ł202 4s. 9d.

26 March 1920 - Ballymena Observer: HOUSE PROPERTY- IN HARRYVILLE, BALLYMENA To Sold Public Auction, the Premises, on THURSDAY, the 8th day APRIL, 1920, at the hour 12 o’clock noon, Those two very desirable Dwelling-house, Nos. 57 and 59, MOAT ROAD, Harryville, Ballymena, and now occupied Mrs. Moore and Mrs. M'llwaine, as weekly...
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Offline myluck!

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 28 April 16 17:37 BST (UK) »
Had a eureka moment!

Son George was shown as in Canada on the newspaper in the In Memoriam for Elizbeth Jane

He traveled to Canada on the Andania in April/May 1929 to Ontario; father shown as John Crawford 1 Moat Terrace Ballymena. He was shown as 18 which implied he was born 1910/11.

This ties with this birth - LINK which shows the Mother's maiden name as DEVELIN

and this ties with this family on the 1911 census with all the right names and in the right area - LINK

LINK to birth records of seven children with Mother DEVLIN

Marriage - LINK
John CRAWFORD (F) Robert; full age; a Mason
married
Elizabeth Jane DEVLIN (F) Hugh; aged 18
on May 28 1898 in Ballymena, Co. Antrim
Witnesses Hugh O'Neill and Isabella Crawford
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline Cell

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #5 on: Friday 29 April 16 03:19 BST (UK) »
Hi,
Thank you  so much   for your above help, aghadowey and myluck!
Elizabeth was indeed dead when her son was killed.
Elizabeth's death cert states that she died on the 27th October 1938 ,age 59, at Victoria hospital , her address on the cert is 59 Moat st Ballymena, wife of John Crawford a bricklayer,  son Robert was present at death ( Robert's  address on the cert is  65 Glenwood st). carcinoma of Vulva 9 months. (poor woman!)
I didn't post the siblings names just on the off chance that some may be alive, never can tell  ( my hubby's great aunt is still alive and kicking and she was born in 1917!). The siblings names and relatives are mentioned in the Memoriam s for her and also  her son in the papers.
Myluck, thank you! That Devlin surname name sounds so very familiar to me somehow.

They seem like a big family, When I was searching the papers yesterday on Moat Road there are quite a lot of stories on  the surname crawfords in the street .The family also seemed to move houses quite a lot along that road

I'm now also wondering if my G Uncle Tommy (Thomas Purdy) was possibly married at the time in 1944 , maybe to a Crawford - I didn't think he got married until after the war, it was the impression that I was given by my mum ( I know that he was definitely married by 1962 though, by newspaper reports of him in 62 and his wife Margaret ), plus I would think the papers in 1944 would have mentioned his wife if married and not his mother when he was found alive and injured . Tommy and  his wife did not have any children(they couldn't have any) .Tommy later died of heart attack before I was born  .If married to a Crawford lass ,it would of course also make Wilnor his nephew. Although I do recall seeing a  framed photo on my grandmother's dresser many years ago of Tommy and his wife's wedding day and he was dressed in  army uniform, so goodness knows when it was taken, and what even happened to the photo -  I suppose  it's long since lost( I just have a photo of him with his mum in army uniform, which I presume  it be when he first joined up, or getting posted overseas)

Yes , I noticed his father was in the Royal Engineers by the reports in the papers. I did search for some time on ancestry to see if any of their records were on there, but no luck so far. Maybe the father's records haven't survived, or perhaps his are also too recent for them to be released ( I'll have to sign up to findmypast on the next  1 pound offer to see if there is anything on there , I  hold a world sub to ancestry).
I'm actually amazed by  being a large family ( so obviously there will be many descendants to this family) that I haven't come across anyone researching them, and no-body with an uncle Wilnor in their tree.. hence finding a link to my family.

 Fascinating, I'm going to have buy the book I've been meaning to get , but I keep putting off as it's not cheap ( The Rifles Are There). I've  been meaning to buy it  for ages as my grandfather served with them for many years and wanted to read up  on some of their involvements . My grandfather's cousin also got blown up in front of him in WW11 over in Normandy-( which he told me about) but  I don't know the name of this cousin he spoke of, unless it was my gran's (Purdy) cousin and my grandfather called him his cousin too (which wouldn't be too far off the truth - as my gran and granddad were related , 2nd cousins - I've now really confused myself !)  ,another mystery ,wish he was still alive to tell me who this cousin of his was. I didn't know exactly where my gran's brother Tommy served  until I found the article of him in 44, and now I have poor Wilnor his "nephew", however he is linked. That Devlin name is really playing on my mind now, it is very familiar to me.. I  don't know where I've seen it, or heard it
 Thanks' again
Kind Regards :)
Purdy-Loughconnelly
McNeill-Loughconnelly & Broughshane
Graham -Derry,Ballymoney,Carrickfergus & Ballymena
White-Broughshane
Boyd-Ballymoney
Lloyd Llangfiangel ar arth(Pencader,Llainwen)
Roberts,Lloyd, Hopkin, Davies Carmarthenshire
Parker Oystermouth/Mumbles.
Carlsen (also called Carlson & Karlson )B in Former Russia (Finland) & Swansea S.Wales.
Butler family Llangyfelach (Clydach & Ynystawe)
Quarman Bitton & S.Wales

Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u

Offline JoanP

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #6 on: Friday 13 October 17 02:18 BST (UK) »
Hello.
This is regarding your great uncle Wilnor Crawford.
I am his niece. I grew up at 59 Moat rd. Ballymena.
My grandmother was Elizabeth jane Crawford. Who adopted Wilnor .

I would like to contact you privately to connect. I am not sure how this site works.
my brother came across this chat and found it very interesting that this was about our family.

- Joan

Offline myluck!

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #7 on: Monday 16 October 17 13:20 BST (UK) »
Welcome to the site JoanP

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Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline Cell

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Re: Elizabeth Crawford's maiden name? Ballymena .Confused - Help please
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 17 October 17 02:46 BST (UK) »
Hello.
This is regarding your great uncle Wilnor Crawford.
I am his niece. I grew up at 59 Moat rd. Ballymena.
My grandmother was Elizabeth jane Crawford. Who adopted Wilnor .

I would like to contact you privately to connect. I am not sure how this site works.
my brother came across this chat and found it very interesting that this was about our family.

- Joan
Hi Joan,
Very nice to hear from you, and welcome to Rootschat
If you post 1 more, you can use the private message function.

My great uncle is Tommy (Thomas) Purdy, not Wilnor Crawford. Thomas is my grandmother's brother .The newspaper article states that Wilnor is Thomas Purdy's nephew.  If the newspaper is correct, it would make Wilnor my mother's first cousin ( and my first cousin once removed)

 
If Thomas Purdy was Wilnor's uncle as stated in the newspaper article ( Thomas was only 4 years older than Wilnor)) it seems to me that one of Thomas Purdy's older sisters may be Wilnor's mother.

Thomas's older sisters are ;
Mary Purdy (born 1901) (married an Alexander in 1919)
Elizabeth Purdy ( born1903)
Jane Purdy ( born 1905) (married a McFaul in 1926)
Sarah Purdy (born 1910)
then three more sisters , who are too young to have had a child born in 1923 , two were born in 1912 (twins), and my grandmother who was born in 1916 .
Thomas was the youngest of the siblings, he was born in 1919. He had just one brother, John, who was the eldest of the siblings ( born in 1900)
Is Wilnor's birth surname Purdy?

Kind Regards :)
Purdy-Loughconnelly
McNeill-Loughconnelly & Broughshane
Graham -Derry,Ballymoney,Carrickfergus & Ballymena
White-Broughshane
Boyd-Ballymoney
Lloyd Llangfiangel ar arth(Pencader,Llainwen)
Roberts,Lloyd, Hopkin, Davies Carmarthenshire
Parker Oystermouth/Mumbles.
Carlsen (also called Carlson & Karlson )B in Former Russia (Finland) & Swansea S.Wales.
Butler family Llangyfelach (Clydach & Ynystawe)
Quarman Bitton & S.Wales

Census information in my posts are crown copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.u