William GILBERT

[Greaves]

Hi

I think I have finally found the death certificate of William GILBERT. If I am correct then he died at Guys Hospital, Southwark on 10 August 1870, aged 28.

This would make sense, as census records indicate a DOB of c1841. The last record of him that I know to be correct was the 1861 census, when he was living with his mother at 24 St Georges Place, Southwark. According to the 1861 census, he was a lawyer's clerk, whereas the William on the death certificate was a mercantile clerk - so fairly close alignment, but not definite proof.

I was hoping that the informant on the death certificate would be a family member, thus confirming that I had the right William Gilbert, but unfortunately it was Mary E Anderson, an employee of the hospital.

There is a corresponding burial on Ancestry for William Gilbert on 13 August 1870 at St Giles, Camberwell, but unfortunately this is a record only entry, so there is no image giving any further details that could confirm that this is the correct William Gilbert.

I am wondering how to go about confirming that this is the correct William Gilbert. The two most obvious routes are (1) locating an image of the burial to see if it contains an address or family name, or (2) a newspaper report.

I have tried to find an image of the burial online, but it doesn't appear to be available. Similarly, I can't find a relevant newspaper report from the limited number available online. Suggestions?

[ShaunJ]

The actual burial was at Nunhead cemetery and you can purchase details from DeceasedOnline including "grave details and 5 other burials" for £1.50

https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch

[Greaves]

Thanks for this. Unfortunately none of the names buried with him are known to me. I have also now looked at the burial scan, which whilst giving the location of the grave, does not give the address of the deceased.

I have found a burial in 1871 which looks like it is for his mother under the name Frances Britten (72) - she re-married - also in St Giles, Camberwell, though I can't find the record for her on Deceased Online. She is difficult as there are various spellings of her surname.

It was initially the fact that both Frances and William were buried at St Giles, that gave me hope that I had found the correct William.

Still uncertain about how to proceed on this one.

[ShaunJ]

There is a burial on DeceasedOnline for Frances Britten, also at Nunhead, on 10 February 1871. 

[Greaves]

So there is, yet my searches failed to reveal it! I tried various spellings of the surname, with and without wildcards to no avail.

I am fairly sure that this is my Frances Britten, previously Frances Gilbert and born Frances Favell. Though once again an address would have been nice as a final confirmation. I know, however, that my Frances Britten died on 2 Feb 1871 at 24 St Georges Place, Southwark, so given the closeness of the dates this is almost certainly my Frances.

The fact that Frances and her youngest son died barely six months apart (August 1870 to Feb 1871), it would seem likely that they would have been buried in the same cemetery.

Interestingly, it would appear that Frances was not buried with either of her husbands. Her first husband, James Gilbert (d 1845) was buried at the Wesleyan Southwark Chapel in Long Lane. Whilst her second husband, Thomas Britten (d 1855) and her daughter Eliza (1821-1858) were both buried in Victoria Park Cemetery in Hackney, normally a burial ground for non-conformists.

I am wondering if death notices would have been published in any local newspapers. Not sure what these would be and where they are located. I can't find anything online.

[Chris Doran]

Nunhead Cemetery is heavily overgrown, apart from some areas which have been cleared of the original gravestones for modern burials. The overgrown areas are pretty well impenetrable, with notices saying it's dangerous to enter, and most gravestones off the paths covered in ivy or reduced to rubble anyway. So all-in-all, I fear the chances of finding either Frances or William are slim. If William is buried with strangers, it's probably an unmarked "common grave".

That said, if you tell me the plot numbers, either here or by PM, I will give you a more accurate assessment, and maybe even go and look.

The big newspaper digitisation project seems to have thrown its hands up in horror at the thought of attempting the hundreds of local newspapers around London, which is one reason why you're not finding anything online.

Sorry for such a negative post.

[Greaves]

Hi Chris, thanks for your interest.

William is buried in a common grave in Square 24. His mother Frances is also buried in a common grave in Square 24.

Whilst I am fairly sure that the Frances buried in Nunhead is my relative, I would really like some confirmation on whether or not William is her son and my relative. On some burial scans the address of the deceased is noted, but not on these scans. I don't know if there are any other records.

As for the digitalisation of local London newspapers that is a real gap in the online presence, as many of us must want access to those papers but are not in a position to visit local archives and libraries where hard copies are stored. It would be useful if there was a central resource telling us which papers have been digitalised and where they can be viewed.