Author Topic: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?  (Read 2153 times)

Offline AdrianB38

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Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« on: Tuesday 17 May 16 13:48 BST (UK) »
Recently reading the back cover of my Dad's Identity Card, I found to my partial delight that it was stamped with his units. I knew that he was in the Home Guard's Anti-Aircraft side, but not which units. My delight is partial because there are 2 stamps laid virtually on top of one another - can anyone help me work out which the batteries were?

The lower Battery Office stamp reads:
"72 Cheshire HG HAA Bty".

"72 Cheshire Home Guard Heavy Anti-Aircraft Battery", I guess. But does 72 denote a Battery within the whole HG or just within Cheshire? The upper stamp is only partly legible and seems to read:
"230 (104?? illegible?? illegible??) AA 'Z' Bty


And I've a feeling that there might be more still under the upper stamp because I can see a 44 but really can't guess that one.

He was living in Crewe, south Cheshire, throughout the war. If I had to guess which came first, I'd say that the lower stamp is the original since I seem to remember him saying that they had "proper" guns first, which were then shipped south to combat V1s, and were replaced by "projectors". But I could be wrong.

So can anyone confirm my reading and suggest what the partly illegible battery designations might be? And the significance of the 230 and 104 (assuming that's what it reads)? I think I've read that one was the Home Guard designation and another the designation in the regulars to cover the regulars attached to the battery, but which is which I'm not sure.

Grateful for explanations and suggestions.


Offline Spikey68

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 16:03 BST (UK) »
I have a couple of books at home that may help. Will check when I get back. In the meantime this may help:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_Battery


Offline mazi

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 16:37 BST (UK) »
Googling.    haa battery crewe.   May tell you a bit, including an aerial photo of the site.

Mike

Offline AdrianB38

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 21:11 BST (UK) »
Re: "haa battery crewe" - I'd never tried that specific a search in Google. Rather interesting because of the places that Dad mentioned, the one in that aerial photo, Weston Road, is not one I remember him talking about. So that's useful to know. I think he went to one to the north of Crewe and the other that I remember was out at Hassall Green, near to the canal.

Re Z Battery - that's them - though Dad always referred to them as "Projectors".

Can't (yet) find any Google reference to the specific batteries mentioned, I'm afraid.


Offline ScouseBoy

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 21:20 BST (UK) »
I think "projectors"  was the piece of equipment which calculated  the elevation of the gun and calculated various factors  to give the time at which to fire.
Nursall   ~    Buckinghamshire
Avies ~   Norwich

Offline Spikey68

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 23:00 BST (UK) »
Unfortunately neither History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery: Anti-Aircraft Artillery 1914-55 by Routledge nor AA Command: Britain's Anti-aircraft Defences of the Second World War by Dobinson have any details on 72nd Cheshire Home Guard HAA Battery.

However, www.historyofuptonbychester.org.uk/Chapter%208.pdf states that "The 71st
Cheshire Home Guard HAA Battery was formed in April 1943
." One can assume that the 72nd would have been setup then or shortly after.

An officer serving with the 72nd was awarded an MBE:

Captain E. Thompson, 72nd Cheshire Home Guard Heavy Anti-Aircraft Battery

http://www.home-guard.org.uk/hg/medstanddownmain.html

Dobinson lists the AA sites in Crewe with grid references. Maybe one of the sites will ring a bell.

Leighton Grange SJ 672 573
(no place name given) SJ 713 588
Weston Lane Farm 721 538
(no place name given) SJ 675 533
Hassall SJ 763 573
Walgherton SJ 701 484

To locate the above grid references go to http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archives/view/dob/nonai_q.cfm?CFID=308571&CFTOKEN=763B7AE5-CD27-4929-B04D58B8A380AF64

Go to Grid Reference
In the box for Grid Square type in SJ
Easting is the first three numbers
Northing is final three

Finally, you could try to get hold of History Of The Cheshire Home Guard From L.D.V. Formation To Stand-Down 1940-1944. Naval & Military Press have copies for 12 quid.

Offline AdrianB38

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 23:25 BST (UK) »
Thanks guys - especially thanks to Spikey. I didn't realise there were that many HAA sites round Crewe - which does beg the question of whether they were meant to be protecting Rolls Royce or being an obstacle on the approach to Liverpool. Or both.

Hassall is certainly one site that rings a bell and Leighton may be the one north of Crewe - I'll need to get the OS map out tomorrow to see where they are on the ground.

Offline AdrianB38

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 24 May 16 12:26 BST (UK) »
History Of The Cheshire Home Guard From L.D.V. Formation To Stand-Down 1940-1944 just arrived this morning and it has the story behind my Dad's AA unit(s).

I have no intention of disrupting sales of that book but just to confirm identities:

The 1st incarnation of the unit was as 230th (104th Cheshire HG) Rocket Battery RA. I think that the dual numbering indicates that 104 was the battery number in some sense within the Cheshire Home Guard (there were 101, 102 and 103 Batteries in the Cheshire HG), while the 230 was the battery number within the Army's Royal Artillery (those other 3 HG batteries also had dual numbering with RA numbers 132, 214 and 104 - that last one being confusing!)

They trained on twin-projectors and later moved on to the no. 6 projector.

In October 1943, it was decided to change to heavy anti-aircraft guns without a Regular component, resulting (I presume) in the new unit having a single designation of 72nd Cheshire Home Guard Heavy AA Battery. There was a 71st Cheshire HG Battery already, on the Wirral.

Because the guns were needed in the South to counter the V1 threat, 72nd was disbanded and the men - according to the book - absorbed into the local general service HG unit, 7th Cheshire (Crewe) Battalion. (I say "according to the book", because while I have Dad's shoulder patch from the AA Battery and a thank-you note for his "retirement" from the HG AA, there is no sign of him being in the 7th - not even on his id card, though that is pretty much covered in stamps.)

Interesting how my interpretation was a bit off. I remembered correctly that the guns had been sent south to counteract V1s but had the impression that the guns were replaced by rocket projectors, when it was the other way round. That may well be my brain trying to impose (faulty) logic on the memory of what Dad said...

Offline ScouseBoy

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Re: Cheshire Home Guard AA Battery designations?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 24 May 16 19:41 BST (UK) »
Thanks guys - especially thanks to Spikey. I didn't realise there were that many HAA sites round Crewe - which does beg the question of whether they were meant to be protecting Rolls Royce or being an obstacle on the approach to Liverpool. Or both.

Hassall is certainly one site that rings a bell and Leighton may be the one north of Crewe - I'll need to get the OS map out tomorrow to see where they are on the ground.
     Lots of war supplies would  be arriving at Liverpool from the USA and Canada.   Much of that would be transported by rail  and Crewe was and remains a   major junction town.
Nursall   ~    Buckinghamshire
Avies ~   Norwich