Catholic Burial, Edinburgh June 1866

[amberdog]

My great x2 grandmother Ellen Dieter (nee Sweeney) died at the Infirmary 30 May 1866 from bronchitis & typhus fever.  Unfortunately her death was not registered by her husband, Bernard Dieter (a German travelling acrobat/contortionist).  I assume he left her behind with their 8 month old daughter.

I have had a search carried out via Mortonhall and they can find no burial records for her.  I've also been told by the Catholic archivist in Edinburgh that all their records are already available at Scotlandspeople.  I've been thoroughly through Scotlandspeople before (using all manner of spellings) and cannot find burial details for her there.  I had also approached Aberdeen University, who have the Catholic archive, but they just reverted me to the archivist in Edinburgh.

Ellen and Bernard had a Roman Catholic wedding service in 1863 in Glasgow.  Their son Constantine was born the following year in Aberdeen and he was baptised at St. Marys in Aberdeen in Mar 1864 and he died in June the same year in Lennoxtown, Campsie.

The circus, The Spanish Circo appears to have arrived in Edinburgh approximately September 1865 and my great gran Catherine Dieter was born in Lasswade on the 16th (no baptism record for her).

From news articles I can trace the circus to Nicolson Street until the end of February 1866, a few months before Ellen died.

The Catholic archivist suggested I approach the church they may have worshiped at, but as a travelling family I very much doubt they attended church very often.

I know Mount Vernon wasn't open in 1866, so where did Roman Catholics get buried in Edinburgh and can anybody advise me which church in Edinburgh at that time was Roman Catholic?  Ellen's usual residence on her death register entry placed her at Kingskettles.  She had been suffering with bronchitis/typhus for 24 days prior to her death.

There was certainly no money for a private burial and my great gran born in 1865 does not appear in the 1871 Census, she doesn't reappear until 1881 living with her uncle Patrick Sweeney in Glasgow as a 15 year old servant.  Bernard is in Kilmarnock on the 1871 Census on his own and dies a pauper in a Manchester Poor House in 1875.

So my great gran is missing for her first 15 years of life and I've no idea where her mother Ellen is buried.  I'm awaiting a response from the Lothian medical archivist, but I'm not hopeful they will be able to shed any light on how Ellen's body was disposed of.

Has anybody used the hard copy archives in Aberdeen? Is it worth my while going up there to look through the hard copies?  I'm running out of options to trace Ellens last resting place.  It will be 150 years since Ellen died at the end of the month and I would dearly like to find her even if its an unmarked paupers grave somewhere.

Many thanks for reading and any advise you folks could offer.
Kind regards - Maria

[dowdstree]

Hi Amberdog,

I do not know if this will be any help to you but if the circus people were all living at the Nicolson Street site then their nearest Catholic Church would have been St. Patrick's in the Cowgate (just off Edinburgh High Street).

Also, I assume that you have her death certificate ? Can I ask who registered her death as this may give us a clue as to where she may have been buried.

One thing to remember is that no record of her burial may exist unfortunately.

Dorrie

[amberdog]

Hi Dorrie,

Many thanks for the St. Patricks suggestion.  I've attached the name of the person from the Royal Infirmary that registered her death.  I'm having difficulty reading it though, William McDairmid perhaps?

He also recorded her surname incorrectly (spelling it Dietar instead of Dieter) and he couldn't offer up her parents details, which has always lead me to believe her husband Bernard left her behind in the hospital.

St. Patricks will be a good place to start though if the medical archivist can't find anything.  I'm not expecting them to find her individual case notes, more curious about how they disposed of the dead when there was nobody around to organise a funeral.

It's disappointing not all burials were recorded back then, but I accept that was just the way it was.  But I'll not stop until I've exhausted all avenues.

Thanks again.
Maria
P.S.  Picture is of Ellen's daughter Catherine (1865-1950) with her husband William Gilmour and one of their sons taken in Rattray, Blairgowrie in the 1920s.

[dowdstree]

Hi Maria,

Just been thinking and looking at the signature. I think that the name of whoever registered her death doesn't really matter. Probably some clerk at the Infirmary. I think it looks likely that her husband Bernard abandoned her and possibly the baby Catherine too. Where was Catherine during her missing 15 years? If not with her father on his travels then one possibility could be that she was in one of the poorhouses of orphanages in Edinburgh until she was 15 and reappears in the 1881 census. Not very nice for her but at least she would have been cared for after a fashion. There were a number of these institutions in Edinburgh at that time.

One sad thing for poor Ellen and her possible Catholic burial and I don't mean to sound uncaring but I doubt if the Infirmary would care about her religion if there was no one to pay for her funeral.

What a lovely photograph of Catherine and I am so happy that she went on to have a decent life.

Kind Regards,

Dorrie

[amberdog]

Hi Dorrie,

You've just voiced what I think.  I doubt there would have been much thought given to Ellen's body and its burial in those days.  I'm curious whether she would have been well enough to nurse her daughter during that time in hospital.  I've often wondered if Catherine ended up in the poor house as soon as Ellen entered the hospital or did she get returned to Coatbridge and reunited with Ellens mother over there. Ellens mother passed away in 1870 at Tenants Street, Coatbridge which at the time looked absolutely dire to live in these one roomed hovels.

If baby Catherine made it back to her Gran in Coatbridge she found herself alone again at the age of 5, she's certainly not with her uncle in 1871, but does show in the 1881 Census with him and his family.

I believe the poor law tried to look after only those born in the parish, but I guess if there were known living relatives baby Catherine may have been sent there.  I believe the Poor Law records are going on line next year sometime.  Fingers crossed they might reveal something of Catherine's upbringing.

As soon as I've got for money I'll make a donation to St. Patricks and ask them to have a look through their records.  That's if they still survive of course.

Thanks again for your input Dorrie.  Much apprecriated.

Regards
Maria

[Forfarian]

I believe the poor law tried to look after only those born in the parish

Not true. The parochial boards were responsible for looking after all paupers. However they could, and usually made strenuous efforts to, recover any expenditure from the pauper's parish of settlement.

Settlement was acquired either by birth, or by living in the parish for a specified length of time (initially 5 and later 3 years IIRC), or by marrying a man with settlement in the parish.

In Ellen's case, she had almost certainly not acquired settlement in an Edinburgh parish, so the parochial board would have dealt with her as economically as possible.

[amberdog]

Cheers for that Forfarian.  I must have picked that up wrong, I thought I had got my interpretation of the law via the Brian Blessed episode of How Do You Think You Are.  Mind you that seems many moons ago since I watch it.

Aye, I'm not holding out any great hope in finding anything concrete on Ellens burial.  I was lucky I found her death entry at all as it had been spelled Dietar and not Dieter.  I'll keep going though until I know I've exhausted every source. 

Thanks again.
Maria