Author Topic: The Neville/Westmorland Name Connection  (Read 778 times)

Offline dlcren

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The Neville/Westmorland Name Connection
« on: Tuesday 24 May 16 02:59 BST (UK) »
Dear All Fellow Genealogists,

I have been perplexed for years about the following supposed story- Charles Neville who lived in Raby Castle in the 16th century rebelled against Elizabeth I. He fled to another country and abandoned his family. Supposedly before this rebellion, he married an unknown woman and they had a son named Thomas Edward Neville Westmorland 1565-1612. The story is that this Thomas changed his last name from Neville to Westmorland. I have found no documentation to support this theory.

Olin Mapes wrote a book on the Westmorelands, yet he had no footnotes. He traveled to England, but didn't make any notes on where he found about Charles Neville, his first wife and his son. This was before Charles married Jane Howard. My DNA results show one of my ancestral names was Neville!

Does anyone have any information about this story? Thank you very much, A Westmoreland descendant

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Offline whiteout7

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Re: The Neville/Westmorland Name Connection
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 24 May 16 05:05 BST (UK) »
Son of Richard Neville and Barbara Arden, Edmund 'Edward" Neville.  Thomas Edward Neville Westmorland was born in 1565, to Edmund 'Edward' Westmorland (7th Earl of Wetmoreland) and Jane Smyth..
Edmund was born in 1555, in Upper Wick, Worcestershire, England.
Jane was born in 1574, in Comebridge, Staffordshire, England.

https://www.myheritage.com/names/thomas_westmorland

"Thomas Neville Westmoreland, known as Lord Westmorland, followed in his father's footsteps, never used the name Neville, being known as Thomas Westmorland . This Thomas Westmoreland named his first son, James Westmorland and his second son, Thomas Westmorland. His son, James, departed England in 1652 at the age of 17 and sailed to America. He landed in Boston, Massachusetts, changed the spelling of his name to Westmoreland and continued south to the State of Virginia where he married and raised a family."

I don't doubt that your DNA matches the Neville name/Dna but I'm not sure about the Charles Neville/unknown woman parentage also Thomas Neville Westmoreland appears to have an older brother James Westmoreland who died after Thomas, so James children would have inherited the Lordship if he had any.

Charles Neville, 6th Earl of Westmorland was born between 18 August 1542 and 28 August 1543.1 He was the son of Henry Neville, 5th Earl of Westmorland and Lady Anne Manners. He married Lady Jane Howard, daughter of Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey and Lady Frances de Vere, between 1563 and 1564.2 He died on 16 November 1601 at Nieuport, Belgium, WITHOUT ANY SURVIVING MALE ISSUE.
http://www.thepeerage.com/p1417.htm#i14163

If Charles Neville had a first wife, who was legal then you would think if would be a Catholic marriage and be well recorded. 


Wemyss/Crombie/Laing (West Wemyss)
Givens/Normand (Dysart)
Clark/Lister (Dysart)
Wilkinson/Simson (Kettle or Kettlehill)

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Offline dlcren

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Re: The Neville/Westmorland Name Connection
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 24 May 16 14:23 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your efforts in helping me. I already have this information. Thomas Edward Neville Westmorland couldn't have been Edmund's son since Thomas was born in Milburn and not
anywhere near where Edmund lived. Also Charles' title went to his relations in the Fane/Vane family.

I know of passages where it states that Charles had no surviving son. There is a ton of
information on these genealogy/ family history websites, but no one seems to have written
documentation of all these 'stories'. It drives me batty to say the least. Lineage societies will not accept hearsay. I really appreciate you sharing what you know with me. Best regards, A Westmoreland descendant

Offline JWestmoreland

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Re: The Neville/Westmorland Name Connection
« Reply #3 on: Monday 05 March 18 04:23 GMT (UK) »
Hello,

I'm a descendant of Alexander Westmoreland. I'm trying to figure out if his father John Thomas Fane Westmoreland is a real ancestor or not... There seems to be quite a bit of controversy about the early Westmorelands... Does anyone know if there is any documentary evidence of John Thomas Fane? Or his father and grandfather? James supposedly came over around 1652. I've read online that he died in Virginia around 1712 but some researchers say there is no documentary evidence of him except for his arrival in Boston. I would be grateful for any light that could be shed on the subject. Thanks!

Offline Forestarius

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Re: The Neville/Westmorland Name Connection
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 15 March 18 11:12 GMT (UK) »
My grandfather Howard C. Foster began his Westmoreland research in 1912 and here I am over one hundred years later still looking for an authentic source. 

Actually, the nobility tales did not enter into my Spartanburg County, South Carolina branch of the Westmoreland line until 1937 when Benjamin Perry Robertson first published his claim to be a descendant of the "Nevill family."  This must have been quite a surprise to his South Carolina cousins who thought their ancestors were three brothers who were farmers and had immigrated from Scotland. Robertson claimed the three brothers were Nevill descendants.

Prior to this a Tennessee branch of Westmorelands paid a genealogist named Edward A. Claypool in 1908 to try to find a connection. When he could not find one he said:

"This son is not mentioned in Burke's Peerage, but strong tradition says that "Thomas Fane, a son of Lord Westmoreland, emigrated to America in Colonial Days...where he assumed the name of Westmoreland...  He was accompanied by a son of Lord Percy and his family..."

Over the decades as the nobility tales fell short they were rewritten by those who tried to make them read less laughable. Instead of sources they added pictures of castles to their books for a more fairytale effect.

For a more scientific approach, one of my cousins, John S. Westmoreland, has taken a Y-DNA test. The upper haplogroups are I-M253 and I-P109. It refines to I-S14887.  Maybe someday we will find the true connection in Europe.

There is a Facebook Group run by Will Westmoreland who encourages Y-DNA tests. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/thewestmorelandfamily/

I hope this helps.

Robert Foster