Author Topic: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate  (Read 2173 times)

Offline Cham

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 30 May 18 00:58 BST (UK) »
Hello Designer Jeans,

    Thank you for your response and information, it is indeed helping me put more missing pieces together. If you descend from Matthew Hopkinson and Anne Ffaulke, then you are definitely distant cousins with poster "Marp", and probably distant cousins with me, as I think that Anne is almost certainly the sister of my ancestor Thomas Foulke.
    Tell me if I have this right, is the "manor" of Stretton a house, land, or both? If the lordship of the manor was split into 3 equal parts, and Matthew Hopkinson and Thomas Fowke each acquired a third of it, does that somehow make them a lord of the (reduced) manor?
    I also suspect Robert Wood as being another brother-in-law of Thomas Fowke, so our families all seem to be interlocked into this Coldwell Farm area, originating with the manor of Stretton.
    As you probably noticed, "Marp" had given me information on the will of Matthew Hopkinson, which lists 6 of the 9 children that you had for him. Apparently daughters Emily, Ellen, and Dorothy predeceased him.
    What is interesting is that my ancestor Thomas Foulke (c1624-1714) definitely had parents Thomas and Dorothy (Cham) Fouke, and that two of Anne (Fauke) Hopkinson's children are named Thomas and Dorothy (though I believe that Matthew also had an uncle named Thomas). I really do believe Anne was their daughter and "my" Thomas her brother, which would give you an extra generation of ancestry. Thank You again for your interest and sharing, please feel free to comment again.

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Offline Designer Jeans

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 30 May 18 09:11 BST (UK) »
Hi

The manor of Stretton is an area of land see P350 "The manorial tenants started to pursue a policy of buying out the lords"

https://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/site-elements/documents/pdf/leisure/record-office/records/manorial-records-guide.pdf

The manor included the settlements of Stretton, Ford, Handley, Woolley Moor, Smithymoor, Newmarket, Holmgate, Henmoor, Woodthorpe, Egstow and Danesmoor. It also included what is now known as Clay Cross. The acreage was over 4000.
Derbys: Ward, Hopkinson, Bradley, Birds, Clarke, Taylor, Daykin, Gent, Vardy, Cotterill, Stocks, Godber, Dronfield, Charlesworth, Bonsall, Purseglove
Notts: Clarke, Freeman, Kitchen, Allcock, Housley, Swanwick, Berrisford, Farnsworth, Antcliffe
Staffs: Nutt, Bowring
Yorks: Holling, Fish, Kay, Hardy
Lincs: Plummer, Broughton, Wellbourne

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Offline Cham

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 30 May 18 18:01 BST (UK) »
    Thank you so much for that information, you are making it so much clearer to me about how my ancestor Thomas would have lived in those days. I have never been to England and am unfamiliar with the land usage terminology.
    On his November 14, 1654 marriage record (before his 1659 land conveyance) he is described as "of Holmegate in the parish of Northwingfield husbandman". Would that mean that he was a tenant at that time? Do you have any idea what he might have grown?
    Also, I saw the manor of Codnor also listed on the information that you gave me. The father of Thomas (c1624-1714), on his October 30, 1616, marriage record is listed as "Thomas Fouke of Codnor" (no occupation described). Would he also have been a tenant at that time in Codnor, before he moved to Holmgate, where he is described as living at the time his son was married in 1654?

Offline Cham

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 30 May 18 21:16 BST (UK) »
    I think that I am getting a clearer picture of the status of Thomas Fouke of Codnor, father of "my"
Thomas Foulke (c1624-1714). In 1613, a Thomas Fowke is listed as a substitute churchwarden for the Church of St. Lawrence in Heanor, representing Codnor and Loscoe. Thomas Fouke of Codnor was married in that same church three years later, so I am virtually certain that this is the same person. My understanding so far is that yeoman served as churchwardens, so this could be his status. Thank you for all of the help that you giving me!

Offline Designer Jeans

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 31 May 18 12:46 BST (UK) »
This is all very exciting.  Your surname is extremely rare and I am amazed and delighted that it is alive and well and living in America!  Have you considered having your Y DNA tested?  The results would be interesting on a number of levels, not least because I have read that it is a Norman name.

Is a trip to the UK a possibility?  You might find local knowledge of the area on the Ashover History and Genealogy Group on Facebook, run by Rob Marriott, a Hopkinson descendant.

Codnor with Loscoe is an ecclesiastical parish, partly in the parishes of Denby and Pentrich, but chiefly in the parish of Heanor, which seems to confirm that the Thomas Fowke who married in 1616 and the sub churchwarden are the same man.

My instinct is that his daughter Ann became the wife of Matthew Hopkinson.  The Robert Wood connection sealed it for me.  To be thorough I would like to check the Heanor and Wirksworth burials and marriages to see if it is possible to eliminate a surplus Ann Fowke.

Many people are descended from the Hopkinsons of Coldwell and I have never heard of a family bible.  Unfortunately, Thomas was one of the five most common male names at the time and there are heaps of Thomas Hopkinsons.  As far as I know a husbandman was a tenant farmer, sometimes paying his rent in labour, who cultivated land and kept animals.  I've got cousins in the area who grow wheat and have beef and dairy cattle, but have little idea about 17h century farming.  If you are able to get hold of a copy or a transcript "The Autobiography of Leonard Wheatcroft" would give you a flavour of the times.  Leonard was born in 1627 and died in 1706 and was the parish clerk at Ashover for 36 years.  I am curious about the move from Codnor to Holmegate, but can only speculate. 

You probably already have this, but just in case "The Free and Voluntary Present 1661 Derbyshire" by David Clay has

Stretton
Matthew Hobkinson of Coldwell Husb 2/6
Thomas Fouke Snr of Holmegate Husb 1/-
John Curtis of the ford Gent 10/-

Hathersage
Thomas Cham Husb 1/6

Oakerthorpe
John Newton Gent 10/-

By the way, Revell is a very auspicious Derbyshire name!

Regards
Valerie

Derbys: Ward, Hopkinson, Bradley, Birds, Clarke, Taylor, Daykin, Gent, Vardy, Cotterill, Stocks, Godber, Dronfield, Charlesworth, Bonsall, Purseglove
Notts: Clarke, Freeman, Kitchen, Allcock, Housley, Swanwick, Berrisford, Farnsworth, Antcliffe
Staffs: Nutt, Bowring
Yorks: Holling, Fish, Kay, Hardy
Lincs: Plummer, Broughton, Wellbourne

Offline marp

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 02 June 18 13:35 BST (UK) »
Hello Designer Jeans  and Cham .
This is getting really very interesting indeed.  I have been busy and out of the conversation which is coming up with lots of information. I had no idea there was a Facebook group for Ashover and family history.  I do not subscribe to Facebook (for all kinds of reasons) but it might entice me to join.
My own theory of why we cannot get a baptismal record for Ann as it is very early 17th century and not all records still exist for that time.  We cannot say it was because she was of a Quaker family as she would have been born before the Quakers came into existence.

I am visiting Ashover in September and will try to get to the DRO and find out whatever I can there, also enquire about any local history group.

To return to your queries, Valerie is correct a husbandman was a tenant farmer who paid rent either in the goods he farmed or by way of labour for the owner. This could lead to all kinds of problems if the owner was demanding and perhaps insisted on his due leaving the husbandman and family in dire circumstances. A yeoman was someone who farmed his own land (not necessarily a large holding).  Sometimes the manorial holdings such as Stretton were quite small and land split up and divided for all kinds of reasons.
 
As you can see from an earlier post Matthew named 6 children in his will.  I have a copy of the original which I got from Lichfield and the synopsis is correct.   The named children were Matthew, Anthony, William, Ann Renshaw, Mary Moore and Thomas.   Thomas looked like the winner in terms of the will (and he was not the eldest son either).

This is really exciting.  I have been through the Wirksworth records on the Wirksworth website , not via the Derbyshire Record Office.  On the website there is a family named Foulke.  Edward and Agnes Foulke certainly had children  Thomas and  Ann.   On the other hand the Wirksworth records have a few people with variant spellings.  Wirksworth to Holmgate is a bit of a jump (I was born and went to school in Wirksworth).  It is not impossible however!

I am persuaded by the evidence that Ann was Thomas of Holmgate's sister.  It would be wonderful to find a baptismal record however.

marp


Offline Cham

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 02 June 18 22:31 BST (UK) »
Hello RootsChatters,

    On my alternate thread here, "Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor", which supplements this one, you can go to reply #1 by philipsearching and click on his Family Search link there. On Page 1, fourth name from the bottom, you can click on the family tree of Thomas Fowke, born about 1570 of Enborne, Berkshire, parents Thomas Fowke and Elizabeth. THAT is the connection I would make to the Staffordshire Fowke family IF he is my Thomas Fouke of Codnor, the father of my Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate. As of now, I have no proof of that, and need the help of dedicated readers to help me separate fact from hopeful thinking. Thank You for your discernment of my hypothesis, all comments welcome here!

Offline marp

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 03 June 18 03:42 BST (UK) »
I have been trying to work backwards from the marriage of Thomas Fouke of Codnor to Dorothy Cham of ? on 30 October 1616.

Both Fouke (various spellings) and Cham are unusual names.   i was interested to note the information from Valerie of the contributions made towards the coronation of Charles II  from the  "The Free and Voluntary Present 1661 Derbyshire" by David Clay.  It has not only Matthew Hopkinson of Coldwell (my direct ancestor) but also Thomas Fouke.   However, she mentions a  Thomas Cham of Hathersage a husbandman.   Could he be from the same family as Dorothy?

By the way what is the source of Thomas who married in 1616 being a substitute churchwarden at Codnor? 

I have read Cham's post "Possible parents of Thomas Fouke of Codnor" and appreciate all the work put into this.  However, for  the moment I am assuming the parents of Thomas Fouke and Dorothy Cham were Derbyshire based.   

I will keep looking!

marp

Offline marp

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Re: Thomas Fowke/Foulke, (c1624-1714), of Holmgate
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 03 June 18 03:50 BST (UK) »
I have just noticed on another site that a Thomas Cham was buried on 27 July 1614 at North Wingfield, Derbyshire.  Is it possible that Dorothy Cham was related to him?

marp