William Dalton and Elizabeth Doyle of Ballinagee, where next?

[cad]

Hi, For some time now I've been researching my Father in Laws Dad who fought at Gallipoli in the Dublin Fusiliers. The only concrete documentation I have found is his war record and an entry in the 1901 census where he is a young boy living with his future in laws in Ballinagee ( his age in this entry is wrongly transcribed). I am getting desperate to establish what his roots are but cannot find a birth record. According to his war record he was born in Dublin but the only evidence I have of him is in Ballinagee.

 I'm in Ireland and have just got hold of his marriage certificate. William Dalton wed Elizabeth Dalton in May 1931 in the RC church in Kilmacanogue. The groom's age is frustratingly given as "full", which is no help and his occupation is listed as Trapper (the family story was that he worked on the Powerscourt estate so we assume this was his employer.)  The groom's father is Edward Dalton occupation, gardener. The Bride's details confirm what we already knew, her father was George Doyle, labourer. They were living in Ballinagee near Enniskerry.

I can't find an Edward Dalton in the Irish census 1901 or 1911 with the occupation Gardener although there is a van driver in Bray in 1901 with a son also called Edward which would tally with what we know.
Can someone suggest what we should do next? I think we are going to have to order William's death cert to establish his age and pin him down, though I wonder if there are any workers records from the Powerscourt estate surviving, I hope they didn't get lost in the fire.

Any help would be appreciated, my father in law is not in the best of health and it would be lovely to find out more about his Dad for him.

[Sinann]

1901 Census for reference
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Powerscourt/Ballinagee/1812079/

While the 1 of 17 isn't very well written why are you sure it's incorrect?

[cad]

Pretty sure, I'm of the opinion that the 1 is an unfortunate blot, there is a wide gap between that and the 7, we can't find another William Dalton in the census and it would be a major coincidence that someone with the same name would be living with this family. He joined the army ( the Kings Liverpool Reg at this point) on 15.8.1912 giving his age as 20 years 10 months, although this record is badly damaged and hard to read and the family story is that he lied about his age on joining. We haven't found him in the 1911 census even though his army record includes a reference from his previous employer a Mr Quigley in Enniskerry.

[Sinann]

He's a difficult one.
Powerscourt papers
http://www.nli.ie/pdfs/mss%20lists/124_Powerscourt.pdf
I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't anything about employees.

Edward Dalton in Bray as you say looks quite good, unfortunately his wife doesn't say how many children she had in the 1911 census, and neither the index on IrishGenealogy or FamilySearch have mothers names listed for the area so while it possible to find the children of Edward it's not possible to find if an Unknown Dalton might be him.

You mentioned Edward Dalton's son Edward.
Do you know William had a brother Edward? Perhaps searching for him might produce something.

RootsIreland might be worth a go, they have a 24 hour sub now.

Where did William end up? Did he stay in Ireland?

[cad]

Thank you for your interest Sinann and thanks for that link, there are some "workmens records" which may or may not bare fruit, would I be right in assuming I'd need to pay an archivist to look through them for me?
As for Edwards son Edward, William gives him as being his next of kin in his army records, his address is 10 Bluebell, Inchicore- although he is not at this address a year later in the 1911 census. William gives his own address as 8 Fingal Place, Prussia Street -which still stands today and looks remarkably unchanged.
Thanks again.

[Sinann]

Giving his brother as NOK in 1912 would make you think both parents had possibly died by than and as he is living with the Doyles in 1901, could they already have died but if that was the case where is Edward. I can't see a 'lone' Edward of a similar age. Given that we don't know if he is older or younger than William.

[cad]

I agree, we assumed the parents were dead too for the same reason but don't want to take that for granted, I know of large families whose children were taken in by other families, I also know of a child being unofficially adopted because of a violent parent but I won't go into that. On the aforementioned marriage cert the father isn't listed as deceased but I have no idea if that was the custom on Irish registrations as it is on British ones. My own Grandmother named a ficticious father on her own marraige cert!
You are right to say "He's a difficult one". I thought researching this line would be a doddle given he lasted well into old age dying in 1966 ( I think) yet his family only seem to have scraps of information about him.
 

[cad]

Sorry, the original message should have read " William Dalton wed Elizabeth Doyle in May 1931 in the RC church in  Killmacanogue".

The dangers of writing posts whilst a three year old runs around your feet.

[Sinann]

I agree, we assumed the parents were dead too for the same reason but don't want to take that for granted, I know of large families whose children were taken in by other families, I also know of a child being unofficially adopted because of a violent parent but I won't go into that. On the aforementioned marriage cert the father isn't listed as deceased but I have no idea if that was the custom on Irish registrations as it is on British ones. My own Grandmother named a ficticious father on her own marraige cert!
You are right to say "He's a difficult one". I thought researching this line would be a doddle given he lasted well into old age dying in 1966 ( I think) yet his family only seem to have scraps of information about him.
 

All that and also giving Dad a better sounding job.

Deceased is fairly hit and miss on Irish Certs, tends to depend on who is asking the questions.
With these appearantly orphan boys I wonder if this is a case when contacting the church he married in might be worth while to see if they recorded his mother's name.
http://www.enniskerryparish.ie/parish-administration

Also there may be some doubt over where they were born, re, the army record, if you have a sub to FindMyPast I'd check out the Workhouse records for Dublin, they could possibly have spent time there if they lost their parents
http://search.findmypast.ie/search-world-Records/dublin-workhouses-admission-and-discharge-registers-1840-1919
And the other links on that page to Dublin Union records.