Author Topic: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire  (Read 699 times)

Offline Cazza59

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Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« on: Saturday 11 June 16 01:27 BST (UK) »
Hi All

I'm trying to find the birth registration details for:

Francis Alfred Watkins (possibly registered with surname Jones)
DOB - 31 July 1872 (as per school registers and 1939 register)
Place of Birth -  Wigmore, Herefordshire (as per census returns)

His single mother was born Emma Jones but was known by the surname of her stepfather William Watkins, which is why I'm not sure which surname would have been used to register Francis.  I think Watkins would be mostly likely as Emma used Watkins in census returns and on her marriage certificate.

(Just as an aside, since no formal adoption ever took place, technically Emma married under an assumed name.  I wonder how legal it was.)

Francis Alfred Watkins lived with his grandparents William and Sarah Watkins in Deerfold, Herefordshire.

I must be missing something as I can find him in the census returns, school registers and 1939 Register, but I can't find a simple birth registration to enable me to order his birth certificate.

To complicate things further, there is a very slight possibility he was registered as Francis Alfred Wilkinson, who may have been the father, but we rather suspect it was Emma's employer.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

Caroline


 

PLEASE NOTE THE FRAMES THAT I USE ARE MY OWN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND STYLE.  I WOULD APPRECIATE IF PEOPLE WOULD REFRAIN FROM IMITATING THEM AND/OR BORROWING THEM WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.  THANK YOU!

NO MAN WAS EVER GREAT BY IMITATION - SAMUEL JOHNSON

Wilkinson - Shropshire;  Jones - Hereford; Mitchell - Brighton; Emery - Brighton; Hall - Brighton Christopher - Dorset; Bussell - Dorset;


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Offline rosie99

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 11 June 16 05:43 BST (UK) »

(Just as an aside, since no formal adoption ever took place, technically Emma married under an assumed name.  I wonder how legal it was.)


Apparently we can call ourselves what we like in England providing it is not for fraudulent purposes.  :)

It was not until the late 1870's that birth registration was tightened up, prior to that it was not always done. 

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Offline Cazza59

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 11 June 16 08:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks Rosie.  I am starting to think they didn't register his birth for obvious reasons.    I can't find any Wigmore parish records either to check baptisms.  They could have been non conformists as well.

Caz
PLEASE NOTE THE FRAMES THAT I USE ARE MY OWN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND STYLE.  I WOULD APPRECIATE IF PEOPLE WOULD REFRAIN FROM IMITATING THEM AND/OR BORROWING THEM WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.  THANK YOU!

NO MAN WAS EVER GREAT BY IMITATION - SAMUEL JOHNSON

Wilkinson - Shropshire;  Jones - Hereford; Mitchell - Brighton; Emery - Brighton; Hall - Brighton Christopher - Dorset; Bussell - Dorset;


This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 11 June 16 11:20 BST (UK) »
Your search might also be complicated by the geographical location of Deerfold and Wigmore.  Wigmore is in Herefordshire, but the registration district is Ludlow which is Shropshire.  Deerfold is also in Herefordshire but sits very close to the borders of Shropshire and Powys.  So, to extend the search to neighbouring parishes, might involve 3 different archive and record centres! 

Offline mazi

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 12 June 16 14:28 BST (UK) »
Just in case you think you are being ignored  :) :), is Emma in burwarton, general servant in the large household of the rector, mr James,  yow might expect to find the birth in wigmore but Wigmore registers for that time are not in Hereford archives list, nor are the bishops transcripts.

Mike

Offline Cazza59

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #5 on: Monday 13 June 16 16:13 BST (UK) »
Sorry Spidermonkey and Mike for the late response!

It's so frustrating because with the amount of other information available for Francis, you would think finding his birth would be a piece of cake.

Mike, That's the right Emma in Burwarton working for Rev James.  My cousin visited the church once and sent me the attached photo that shows the graves for 9 children of Rev James.  :(

So perhaps checking Shropshire records might be more fruitful although I have done generic searches several times and obviously come up empty handed.

Caz


PLEASE NOTE THE FRAMES THAT I USE ARE MY OWN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND STYLE.  I WOULD APPRECIATE IF PEOPLE WOULD REFRAIN FROM IMITATING THEM AND/OR BORROWING THEM WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.  THANK YOU!

NO MAN WAS EVER GREAT BY IMITATION - SAMUEL JOHNSON

Wilkinson - Shropshire;  Jones - Hereford; Mitchell - Brighton; Emery - Brighton; Hall - Brighton Christopher - Dorset; Bussell - Dorset;


This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
<]

Offline Cazza59

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 14 June 16 10:40 BST (UK) »

(Just as an aside, since no formal adoption ever took place, technically Emma married under an assumed name.  I wonder how legal it was.)


Apparently we can call ourselves what we like in England providing it is not for fraudulent purposes.  :)

It was not until the late 1870's that birth registration was tightened up, prior to that it was not always done.

Sorry Rosie, I completely missed your response, I do apologise for that!  :-[ :-[ :-[

That's useful to know about the lax laws about names as it explains something I've always wondered about another relative that went by a different name to that on his birth certificate. 

I was hoping that finding a birth in 1872 would be easy.  :-\   From what Spidermonkey and Mike have said, the issue appears to be the location rather than date, but then they may not have registered him at all.

Caz
PLEASE NOTE THE FRAMES THAT I USE ARE MY OWN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND STYLE.  I WOULD APPRECIATE IF PEOPLE WOULD REFRAIN FROM IMITATING THEM AND/OR BORROWING THEM WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.  THANK YOU!

NO MAN WAS EVER GREAT BY IMITATION - SAMUEL JOHNSON

Wilkinson - Shropshire;  Jones - Hereford; Mitchell - Brighton; Emery - Brighton; Hall - Brighton Christopher - Dorset; Bussell - Dorset;


This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
<]

Offline Spidermonkey

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 14 June 16 18:35 BST (UK) »
If you can hold on until later on in July, I can go along to Herefordshire Records Centre and have a look in person, if that helps?

Offline Cazza59

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Re: Francis Alfred Watkins or Jones - Birth Entry Wigmore, Herefordshire
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 21 June 16 04:37 BST (UK) »
If you can hold on until later on in July, I can go along to Herefordshire Records Centre and have a look in person, if that helps?


Hi Spidermonkey

My cousin and I took a punt on a birth entry and ordered a birth certificate.  It arrived yesterday and I'm happy to say we got lucky and it's the right one.  He was born plain old Alfred Jones.  :)  The name "Francis" must have been an afterthought as it doesn't appear on the certificate.  I thought for sure he would have been registered as "Watkins" as per his mother, particularly when Watkins was used in the Census returns.

Anyway, happy to mark this thread completed.

Many, many thanks for your very kind offer, it was greatly appreciated.  :) :) :)

Cheers
Caz

PLEASE NOTE THE FRAMES THAT I USE ARE MY OWN INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND STYLE.  I WOULD APPRECIATE IF PEOPLE WOULD REFRAIN FROM IMITATING THEM AND/OR BORROWING THEM WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.  THANK YOU!

NO MAN WAS EVER GREAT BY IMITATION - SAMUEL JOHNSON

Wilkinson - Shropshire;  Jones - Hereford; Mitchell - Brighton; Emery - Brighton; Hall - Brighton Christopher - Dorset; Bussell - Dorset;


This information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
<]