Author Topic: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick  (Read 4540 times)

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 30 June 16 07:43 BST (UK) »
Thanks Brian,

That's a useful reference.  Profit derives from the Latin profectus.

Offline okkool

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 03 July 16 00:57 BST (UK) »
Lots of red ink to review.

hearaftr doe marye then hit ys my will that she shall have, onely no more, but her
thryd parte, p(ro)vyded alwayes that it ys my wyll and mynde that my wyfe marye shall not
cut doune, fell nor take no man(ner) off woodds unto her ffire, or otherwyse, tynsell necessary
and convenyente onelye excepte, ffor the maintenance off hedges, mou(n)des & enclosures

marye my wyfe shall have suche mete & co(n)venyente ffire Lyte, upon the one grou-
ndes called the Lyrchye Leasues & Co(m)mon lande lyinge in the thre feldes
called the thre wheleys as maye convenyently be spared and as hathe  beme
ffro(m) tyme to tyme usgorlly & customably ffallen, makynge no wylfull waste in

Thanks Brian
People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors. Edmund Burke 1729-1797

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 03 July 16 05:58 BST (UK) »
Some tricky ones here, Brian.

You have read thryd correctly.  The meaning is thyrd [= third] p(ar)te, which was the customary share for a widow.

I also agree with your reading of t-y-n-s-e-l-l necessary.  I am still puzzling over the meaning or interpretation of the first seven letters.

(In the same line it is woodde rather than woodds.)

...have suche mete [= meet: meaning = fitting, proper] & co(n)venyente ffire ?yte, upon the ov(er) grou

The missing letter I think is a b rather than an l.  I concede that ffire lyte makes more immediate sense.  Again the meaning is elusive.

...and as hathe benne [= been]
fro(m) tyme to tyme usually & customably ffallen...

ADDED:  Regarding the word usually, it's not clear from the extract whether the loop in the area of the su belongs to this word or the line below.  If the former, it is ushually.

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 03 July 16 15:25 BST (UK) »
I did find use of the word Tynsell in this reference below.  The context of rights to remove wood from a landholding is the same.  Purely as a guess, it might refer to smaller wood like brush.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=5367AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=tynsell+necessary&source=bl&ots=sW11geGZ_4&sig=bxJr-cvTuKYdVob1iromqtCg26Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwrJy9vtfNAhWGLpQKHU4-Dm0Q6AEINTAI#v=onepage&q=tynsell%20necessary&f=false


Offline okkool

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 03 July 16 17:09 BST (UK) »
Thanks Hd86 for your insight. In this reference https://books.google.ca/books?id=eLICAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA225&lpg=PA225&dq=fire+byte+archaic&source=bl&ots=xZ1ZNprvKE&sig=8mFcKXfiLH9joVt0l0g24Mavy3c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil8bjZy9fNAhUQ3WMKHY1oB7EQ6AEILjAD#v=onepage&q=fire%20byte%20archaic&f=false

byte - 1) a morsel, a bit 2) to cut, as a sword, or any instrument, as in "Ther was no knyfe, that wolde hym byte"
unfortunately this seems make even less sense than lyte.  A word meaning fuel would make a lot more sense.

In this reference http://info.sjc.ox.ac.uk/forests/glossary.htm I found the following:

tynsell    - common right to take wood, especially for fuel (see also ‘firebote’ and ‘estover’) (R 170)
tynsell wood   - small firewood suitable for use in ovens (Ja, 304)

In the same reference
mete  - (v) measure, (n) boundary as in ‘mere’, q.v. (R 168). A statute, 6 Edw 1, gives the crown rights over the metes and bounds of a forest, to be understood as applying to ‘metes inclusive, as ways, rivers, &c’, but not to ‘metes exclusive, as churches, churchyards, chapels, mills, houses, trees &c, which bound the forest, but are excluded from any jurisdiction’ [a distinction seemingly based in the statutory stipulation that forest metes and bounds must be ‘irremovable marks’, whereas the latter are removable]

That being said your conclusion of "meet" seems the right one.

Thanks again Brian
People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors. Edmund Burke 1729-1797

Offline okkool

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 03 July 16 17:34 BST (UK) »
It just occurred to me that if I read the passage "suche mete & co(n)venyente ffire byte, upon the ov(er) grou"  as (such fit and convenient fire bit(s) upon the ground) then byte does make sense.

Brian

People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors. Edmund Burke 1729-1797

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 03 July 16 17:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Brian,

You have found some useful references there.

I would say that our ffire byte is just a variant spelling of fire-bote; that is, the right of estover.

PS:  I see you have posted along different lines as I wrote.

Offline okkool

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 03 July 16 18:01 BST (UK) »
Hd86

Well there you go, from nothing to two plausible meanings.

Brian
People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors. Edmund Burke 1729-1797

Offline okkool

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Re: Will & Inventory of Thomas Holyer 1586 Nether Whitacre Warwick
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 05 July 16 05:01 BST (UK) »
Hello again, before I start the inventory, a couple of parts in need of review. 

hn my eldest sonne, my waine tewes yockes and all the iron ware with
all suche rings beunenses as belonge unto husbandrye, It(e)m I geve and bequeath
unto my thre eldest daughters & lyrabreth anye and wyve svete to ev(er)y one of the
10 poundes, apeace to be payd when they shall come to the age off 21 yeres, and

also can you confirm that this a bequeath to the unborn:

yeres, And yff she dye I will that the said p(ar)te, shall remayne to the chyld that my wyffe goeth
w(i)th all. yff it doe lyve, It(e)m I give unto my sonne John a calffe, And it ys my will
that my wyfe shall kepe th(a)t untyll yt gave a calffe at the ffoote, Alsoe I geve and bequeath unto the
chylde thar my wyffe nowe goethe w(i)thall, a cowe when it shall come unto the age off 18 yeres
yf the said chylde doe lyve, to be set forthe ffor it, ffinallye I make marye my wyffe, my full

Brian
People will not look forward to posterity, who never look backward to their ancestors. Edmund Burke 1729-1797