Author Topic: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales  (Read 4807 times)

Offline blinker

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #18 on: Monday 27 June 16 10:03 BST (UK) »
All right, sorry about the delay, I was a bit sick!

Here is what I know for sure about William Goodwin/Goodman and (Sarah)* Elizabeth Williams/Goodwin/(Davies?)

*I can no longer seem to find the documents where she was listed as Sarah Elizabeth, but I could swear they existed!

And yes, Williams does come from Birth/Christening data, on all her US-born children's records she is listed as Elizabeth Williams, as here:
Name:   William J. Goodwin
Gender:   Male
Spouse:   Elizabeth Williams
Child:   Goodwin
FHL Film Number:   1893712

I am certain this is them in the 1881 Wales census. (Later Rose/Rosannah's birth will be given in her obituary (at least) as the Isle of Anglesey-)



1881 wales census

Name:   William Goodwin
Age:   34
Estimated birth year:   abt 1847
Relation:   Head
Spouse's Name:   Elizth. Goodwin
Gender:   Male
Where born:   Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish:   Llangynwyd Higher
County/Island:   Glamorgan
Country:   Wales
Street address:   24 Union Street
Condition as to marriage:   Married
Occupation:   Rougher In Ironworks
Registration district:   Neath
Sub registration district:   Margam
ED, institution, or vessel:   10a
Neighbors:   View others on page
Piece:   5336
Folio:   24
Page Number:   5

Household Members:   
Name   Age
William Goodwin   34
Elizth. Goodwin   28
Elizth. Goodwin   9
Rosannah Goodwin   7
Amelia Goodwin   5
William John Goodwin   2

Quote
I've read back though and can't see where the Williams name has been confirmed - was this from a baptism or some other record?

A William Goodman married a Sarah Williams or Sarah Davies in Merthyr Tydfil RD in 1874, so Elizabeth & possibly even Rosannah could have been born before they married?  I cant find the birth of a Rosannah Goodman but there are several variants of Rosanna Williams around the right time.

There is an Elizabeth Williams of around the right age (18, listed as working in an innhouse) in the home of a David Davies in the 1871 census;
Glamorgan Llanguicke District 15, perhaps that's her?


Here is William Goodwin's USA naturalization data -

Name:   William Goodwin
Age:   48
Birth Date:   1848
Birth Place:   Wales
Naturalization Date:   1896
Naturalization Place:   Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio, United States
FHL Film Number:   1819030

In the 1900 US Census, Elizabeth lists herself as the mother of 12 children total, 9 living, and states her mother and father's birthplace as Wales
William- States birthplace as england, father's as england, mother's as wales, states immigration years as 1882

Elizabeth dies in 1911.

In the 1920 US census, william states the following about his background

Name   William Goodwin
Age   74
Birth Year   abt 1846
Birthplace   England
Immigration Year   1880

Marital Status   Widowed
Father's Birthplace   England
Mother's Birthplace   England

In 1930 William states again that both parents and himself were England-born.

William and Elizabeth's shared grave and related data can be seen here - http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=17968187&ref=acom

Please tell me if you need anything else and I'll try to dig it up, most of what I have is after they came to the USA, of course, it's back in the UK I'm trying to figure out. But I'm happy to sort anything out. Thanks again for all your help!
Gallagher, Heck, Mansfield, Bagot, Cave, Goodwin / Godwin / Goodman/ Godwin /Godwyne, Monroe/Munro, Burke, Griffin, Williams, Van Nuys, Holland, Marley, Fagan, Deveraux, Watkins, Deely, Raidy, Boice, Davis, Cornell, Doty, Crown, Forrester, Brokaw, Wedge, Barnett, Warner, Parks, Arden, Webb, and many more...

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #19 on: Monday 27 June 16 10:05 BST (UK) »
accidental double post
Gallagher, Heck, Mansfield, Bagot, Cave, Goodwin / Godwin / Goodman/ Godwin /Godwyne, Monroe/Munro, Burke, Griffin, Williams, Van Nuys, Holland, Marley, Fagan, Deveraux, Watkins, Deely, Raidy, Boice, Davis, Cornell, Doty, Crown, Forrester, Brokaw, Wedge, Barnett, Warner, Parks, Arden, Webb, and many more...

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #20 on: Monday 27 June 16 10:08 BST (UK) »
.
Gallagher, Heck, Mansfield, Bagot, Cave, Goodwin / Godwin / Goodman/ Godwin /Godwyne, Monroe/Munro, Burke, Griffin, Williams, Van Nuys, Holland, Marley, Fagan, Deveraux, Watkins, Deely, Raidy, Boice, Davis, Cornell, Doty, Crown, Forrester, Brokaw, Wedge, Barnett, Warner, Parks, Arden, Webb, and many more...

Offline Jomot

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #21 on: Monday 27 June 16 11:04 BST (UK) »
Small world... my family was also from Wales (Aberdare, which is why I was initially interested in your post) and my GG Grandfather emigrated to Cuyahoga, where he bigamously married an Elizabeth Williams! 

Several of his children followed him over, as did his first wife, so I have an interest in Cuyahoga too.  I've just used Google maps to see where my family was compared to yours, and they were less than a mile apart!

I cant promise, but I'll see if I can find anything to help.
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.


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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #22 on: Monday 27 June 16 11:12 BST (UK) »
Why thankyou! Yes, many immigrants clustered there in what was called The Flats! Quite a fascinating and, well, impoverished and wretched place back then!

Also I've just found that there WAS a William Godwin in prison in 1871 census, so who knows maybe that's why they held up the wedding (lol)
Name:   William Godwin
Age:   23
Estimated birth year:   abt 1848
Relation:   Prisoner
Gender:   Male
Where born:   Newport, Monmouthshire, Wales
 But, I don't have any real reason to think that's him XD

More LIKELY is this Servant born in Somerset (I once thought the trail best connected to Goodman/Gedman/Goodwin coopers and hawkers in Somerset as his family, but am now unsure)
Name:   William Goodman
Age:   23
Estimated birth year:   abt 1848
Relation:   Servant
Gender:   Male
Where born:   Somerset, England
Civil Parish:   Llanwonno
Town:   Glyn Cynon
County/Island:   Glamorgan
Country:   Wales

Another candidate I haven't found contradictory data for yet is this young river-barge driving william J godwin, living with (I assume) adopted parents, bosses  (though he's listed as son) or relatives named Poole

Under LIst of Persons Not In Houses, 1861 England Census  Kempsford, Gloucestershire, England-
Name:   William J Godwin
Age:   13
Estimated birth year:   1848
Relation:   Son
Father's name:   John Poole
Mother's name:   Hannah Poole
Gender:   Male
Where born:   Lechlade, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish:   Kempsford
County/Island:   Gloucestershire
Country:   England

Oh, and I'm in Ohio, not TOO far from Cuyahoga at that so I may be able to help you look up anything tricky and hard to find online about your family  as well!
Gallagher, Heck, Mansfield, Bagot, Cave, Goodwin / Godwin / Goodman/ Godwin /Godwyne, Monroe/Munro, Burke, Griffin, Williams, Van Nuys, Holland, Marley, Fagan, Deveraux, Watkins, Deely, Raidy, Boice, Davis, Cornell, Doty, Crown, Forrester, Brokaw, Wedge, Barnett, Warner, Parks, Arden, Webb, and many more...

Offline Jomot

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #23 on: Monday 27 June 16 17:17 BST (UK) »
Well they certainly didn't make it easy, did they?

I've probably just been going down the same old tracks you have already, but looking at the passenger list I see Elizabeth & children arriving on 19 Oct 1882 aboard the Catalonia.  The oldest child looks to me like Annie, so a possible birth for her is Jul-Sep 1871, Merthyr Tydfil, Vol 11a, Page 376, Elizabeth Ann Godwin (although there is also an Elizabeth Goodwin born the same quarter).

The next family on the passenger list is 26 year old George Williams & his wife Sarah, plus children Hannah (?) aged 4 and Matthew 10-months, so I wondered if this was possibly Elizabeth's brother?    The birth of a Matthew Williams was registered in Anglesey in the December quarter of 1881, so possibly ties in with the Anglesey reference for Rosannah - although I think I've found her birth now in Merthyr Tydfill district, 1874.

To add to the frustration, records in the US state Matthew's mother to have been Sarah Thomas, but I cant find her marrying a George Williams.  Nor have I found William Goodwin marrying Elizabeth Williams.

Edited: I must have been going blind.  George Williams married Sarah Thomas in the April-June quarter of 1880 in Swansea.

Quote
Another candidate I haven't found contradictory data for yet is this young river-barge driving william J godwin, living with (I assume) adopted parents, bosses  (though he's listed as son) or relatives named Poole

The pages seem to be out of order, so you need to skip back an extra page:
Richard Godwin, Head, 42, Widower, b Berkshire, Boatman
Harriet Godwin, Boarder, 33, Unm, b Lechlade, Glostershire [Gloucestershire]
Margaret Jane Godwin, Daur, 2,            ""
William J Godwin, Son, 13,                    ""

A possible for the 1871 William Godwin in prison is this baptism:
2 April 1847, Llandogo, Monmouthshire, William son of Richard & Jane of Pen-y-Van (Pen-y-Fan?). I cant make out Richard's job, possibly wood hand?

I'll keep looking!

Added: Forgot to add, I found Harriet Godwin in Lechlade in 1841 - parents Richard & Jane.  A coincidence?  Oh, and Richard is a Boatman Waterman.
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #24 on: Monday 27 June 16 17:40 BST (UK) »
This seems to be the reason he was in prison:

Monmouthshire Merlin, 4 Apr 1871
William Godwin, labourer, was charged on a warrant with assaulting and beating his wife. The poor woman said it was a first offence, and she had no wish to press the charge. She went to the public house to fetch him home on Friday night, and when she got him there he beat her. She had been married to him two years, and often had to complain of his not bringing her home any money. The magistrates severely admonished the prisoner, and bound him over to keep the peace for six months.
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #25 on: Monday 27 June 16 18:24 BST (UK) »
Oh dear, another one to scrap I'm afraid.  Richard Godman, father of the William baptised 1847, was indeed a woodman / wood cutter and according to the newspapers was 'notorious'.  He was born Stanlan, Gloucestershire c1825, so would tie in with 'your' William's father being born in England.

This is them in 1861:
Penyvan, Llandogo, Monmouth
Richard  Godwin  36  Head  b Stanlan, Gloucestershire  Wood Cutter   
Jane Godwin  57   Wife  b Coleyford, Gloucestershire   
Thomas Godwin  18  Son  b Llanton, Gloucestershire  Carpenter   
William Godwin  14  Son  b Llandogo, Monmouthshire  Scholar   
Herbert  Powell  19  Visitor  b West Dean, Gloucestershire  Miner   

But... William isn't with them in 1871 and there is a burial of a 21-year-old William Godwin in Llondogo, 1867. 

Back to the drawing board!

The William in prison in 1871 looks like he may have been married to Julia Sullivan and is possibly recorded both in jail and at home.
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

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Re: The Roaming Birthplace-Altering Goodmans of England and Wales
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 28 June 16 16:51 BST (UK) »
Well it would have been something to be descended from a NOTORIOUS WOODCUTTER. lol.
I hadn't found their passage details yet so thankyou for that!

Let me look farther into the canal dwellers and the Lechlade folks. (How common was it for sons of boat families to take up land-dwelling careers in ironworking, i wonder? Hmm.) 

There is, of course, formerly-considered William and Ann from Somerset as potential parents*
*there's ANOTHER william and ann I considered, too, but I think I found a death there.

However, these two being the parents would place William's birth around 1841, though I'm not sure he wouldn't fudge his age, given his apparently loose attitude toward form-filling! But the data there is -
1841 English Census Somerset Durleigh District 12 13 (All seem to have born in same county checked, the page is extremely faded)

William Goodman   30 - profession listed as Mason
Ann Goodman   30
Mary Goodman   13
Charles Goodman   11
Caroline Goodman   9
William Goodman   
Gallagher, Heck, Mansfield, Bagot, Cave, Goodwin / Godwin / Goodman/ Godwin /Godwyne, Monroe/Munro, Burke, Griffin, Williams, Van Nuys, Holland, Marley, Fagan, Deveraux, Watkins, Deely, Raidy, Boice, Davis, Cornell, Doty, Crown, Forrester, Brokaw, Wedge, Barnett, Warner, Parks, Arden, Webb, and many more...