Author Topic: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area  (Read 1993 times)

Offline sawfish

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stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« on: Monday 04 July 16 20:57 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find parents/ancestors for Charlotte Hellier.

What I know:

Born 15 March 1856, maybe in Llanfoist.  I have no source for the birth - the year is approximate and based on later census ages.

1885: Married 24 November in Blaenavon to Griffith Timothy (b. 1855).

1887: Immigration record of her arriving in New York (as Charlotte Timothy)

1891, 1901, 1911: Shows up in Canada Census (living in British Columbia)

1939: Died 21 April 1939 in British Columbia, Canada

So from the point where she was married onwards I have no problem tracing her - but - I cannot seem to find her parents.

Clues I have from looking at the children and Griffith and Charlotte (father is always correct but mother has a variety of names)

Daughter Kate was married in 1930. Mother listed as Charlotte Elliott instead of Charlotte Hellier.

Son Griff Timothy died in 1967.  Mother listed as Charlotte Jones

Son William married in 1920.  Mother Scharlott Elliotte

Son John married in 1901.  Mother Charlotte Hillier

Daughter Florence birth registration shows mom as Charlott Hellier.

I have seen there are a variety of spelling for Hellier (Hillier, Hellyer, etc.) but Charlotte here is showing us as Hellier/Hillier/Elliotte/Jones.

I searched back for these different names/spellings and think I have found her in the 1871 Census.

The 1871 Census for Blaenavon shows a Charlotte Elliott, birthplace Llanfoist, born in 1856 working as a limestone breaker.  The census says she is the granddaughter with a Charlotte Phillpot (age 66) as the head of the household.

There are no other Hellier's or anything related living in the household.

Another clue - Charlotte's husband, Griffith Timothy, had a prior marriage where I believe the mother died in childbirth.  This left Griffith as a single parent - he shows up on the 1881 census in Llanover living at Shepherds Square (so he would be working at the ironworks).

So that is about what I have.. If I were going to guess I think maybe Charlotte's parents died and that is why she was living with a Phillpot in 1871 - but - I am not sure that really is the right Charlotte, I am just making a semi-educated guess.

I can't find any Hellier's or similar in the right area / right time to be her parents.

The avenue I'm working on now is an Ann Phillpot - 1851 census - living in Shepherd's Square; I am seeing if I can find a link between the Phillpot's and the Hellier's.

If anyone has done work on these people or has some ideas i'd really appreciate it, this one has stumped me for a while!

I have digital copies of the records I've mentioned - just from browsing the forums and reading the help I don't want to post bits and cause a copyright issue.

Thanks,

Darren















Online KGarrad

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04 July 16 21:22 BST (UK) »
Maybe?

Births, March qtr 1856
Abergavenney Registration District     vol 11a, page 56

Hillier, Charlotte


Llanfoist parish comes under the Abergavenny Registration District.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline groom

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04 July 16 21:40 BST (UK) »
Quote
1885: Married 24 November in Blaenavon to Griffith Timothy (b. 1855).

Do you actually have this certificate - does it say anything under father?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline despair

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 July 16 22:35 BST (UK) »
If you look at the 1851 census(HO 107 2447 133 11) for the Charlotte Philpot you identified in the 1871 census,you will find she has a daughter Margaret Forward,married daughter(married 1846).Then there is an 1853 marriage of Margaret Forward to Job Hillier.They can be found variously mistranscribed in 1861(RG09 3995 51 1),with a daughter Charlotte given born Blaenavon 1856.
Job Hillier dies in 1863.

Regards
Roger


Offline sawfish

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 05 July 16 00:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you, good find.  I use Familysearch for my genealogy and there is a birthday of 15 March 1856 (but no source) - this record matches the date already there, so I suspect that probably is the right Charlotte.

The geography makes things a bit more complex too, I may have seen that but didn't see a familiar Blaenavon / Llanfoist so might have gone right past it (I'm in Canada and never been to the UK).


Maybe?

Births, March qtr 1856
Abergavenney Registration District     vol 11a, page 56

Hillier, Charlotte


Llanfoist parish comes under the Abergavenny Registration District.

Offline sawfish

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 05 July 16 00:30 BST (UK) »
I just have the basic transcription from

"England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005," database, FamilySearch

It shows Griffith Timothy marrying Charlotte

Abergavenny/Monmouthsire, 1885, Oct-Nov-Dec

It doesn't have any other info.

I also have access to Findmypast and checked there - they do have the actual image but same thing, the only marriage record is the big index list of names, so no other info.

Quote
1885: Married 24 November in Blaenavon to Griffith Timothy (b. 1855).

Do you actually have this certificate - does it say anything under father?

Offline despair

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 05 July 16 00:30 BST (UK) »
I haven't been able to trace this yet in the 1871 census,but there is a marriage of a Margaret Hellier in 1869 in Abergavenny.Possible tihird marriage for Margaret?


Regards
Roger

Offline sawfish

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 05 July 16 00:34 BST (UK) »
This looks very promising - I'm going to pull up all of these records in a bit and see if these connections pan out, thanks!

If you look at the 1851 census(HO 107 2447 133 11) for the Charlotte Philpot you identified in the 1871 census,you will find she has a daughter Margaret Forward,married daughter(married 1846).Then there is an 1853 marriage of Margaret Forward to Job Hillier.They can be found variously mistranscribed in 1861(RG09 3995 51 1),with a daughter Charlotte given born Blaenavon 1856.
Job Hillier dies in 1863.

Regards
Roger

Offline Rowley

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Re: stuck on ancestor Charlotte Hellier, Blaenavon / Llanfoist area
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 06 July 16 13:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Sawfish, If you look on FindMyPast you will find a Baptism for a Charlotte Louisa Hillier in Newport, Monmouthshire, on the 15 May 1853, parents William (Labourer) and Elizabeth, living at Cardiff Road, Newport
Hope this helps, Best wishes Rowley
Davey in Upper Machen, Bedwas, Cascade Glam
Owen Merthyr,Gelligaer area.
Thomas Brecon and Merthyr Tydfil.
Williams,Llangynwyd, Pengam Mon and Glam.
Bevan Mynyddislwyn Pengam and Gelligaer area.
Ellery and Trotman Wooton under Edge,Bristol and South Wales