Elizabeth Graham Minnis in 1840

[kathywithak]

I have hit a dead end with trying to find info for Elizabeth Graham Minnis, born 1840 in County Down ,iIreland.  She married John Minnis a master shoemaker around 1864.  The only record I have been able to find is the birth of her son Samuel Minnis, parish in Richhill 1866, It shows Bottlehill as the address. 
I cant find anything to match that info online.  I am sure Elizabeth and John Minnis had several children.  I am useless as searching the census records, I have tried and found nothing.  I fsomeone can post a link to the census I should be looking at to see them, I would be forever grateful. 

Thanks for any help. 

[dathai]

Just for reference from one of your posts
Samuel married in England in 1891 and his father was deceased at this time so no point looking for them on Irish Census which leaves Elizabeth his mother who you possibly dont know if dead or alive in 1901.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

1891
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:H9YY-Z2M

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Hi
Could your facts be questionable 
I found the following
Bottlehill nr Richhill   {Richhill is a neighbouring civil parish itself ] Kilmore civil parish Co Armagh
1864 Griffiths Valuation has http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
Minnis John Bottlehill Kilmore Armagh
living at map ref  4D Eb John Minnis     house small garden valuation15 shillings pa
living at map ref  4D Ec Joseph Graham     house small garden valuation15 shillings pa
notes john minnis’a landlord is Anne chapman with 22 acres map ref 4A,4B,4C,$D
however a problem arises
1833 Tithe-Applotments Books http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/tithe-applotments/kilmore-parish.php#.V4tpsVeoc5R
Graham, Joseph   - Townland: Kilmore Year: 1833
however a problem arises where are Richhill parish records listed.


Recap family
John Minnis a master shoemaker how do you know his occupation
m~ 1864  Elizabeth Graham 1840 ? how do you know this b Co down how do you know this?  Notes familysearch.org has a john mines b~1825 d Jan - Mar 1888 Armagh might need searching further.  Notes I searched unsuccessfully for Elizabeth Graham in Ros Davies Co Down website
children
Samuel Minnis, b~ 29 Mar 1866 familysearch.org has several, one entry has Christening Place   94, RICHHILL, ARM, 1866,   could this be the family in 1901 census Scotland [to follow up if they stayed in Scotland join scotlands people and buy credits etc]
Samuel Minnis b 1867 ireland Steet Worker ireland
m Jassie b1866  ireland
children
John b 1892 England
Emma b1896 Cambuslang Lanarkshire
Samuel b1897 Dalziel Lanarkshire


just possible siblings
Robert Samuel Mcminn 04 Apr 1877 Birthplace    Cloughrea, Armagh,
James Alfred Mcminn 24 Jul 1880 Cloughrea, Armagh, Ireland
https://www.emeraldancestors.com/search/births/viewlistbirths.asp?County=&Surname=minnis&Forenames=&mothersforenames=&mothersmaiden=&fathersforenames=&civildistrict=   has several armagh births for minnis     

 Going back to Co Down just in case there was  a
Richhill residence   in Ballynahinch civil parish Magheradrool co down belonging Nathaniel Greer in 1845 see Ros Davies website which also has
Mr.J.R.   MINNIS Magheradrool vice captain of Ballynahinch & District Motor Cycle Club 10 Apr 1924   DR*
Miss   Margaret MINNIS MINNIS  Saintfield & Magheradrool   daughter of James Minnis; married William Hanna Beattie/ Beatty 23 Nov 1865 in Saintfield; mother of Jane b. 1868 & James b. 1869 & William b. 1871 & Sarah b. 1873 (regd. Ballynahinch)   CR

grahams galore in Magheradrool

1834 TABs http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/magheradrool-parish.php#.V4tiBFeoc5Q  no minnis found
Graham, Geo.      Townland: South Ballymacarn Year: 1834
Graham, Hugh   Townland: North Ballymac Year: 1834
Graham, Hugh   Townland: North Ballymacarn Year: 1834 Notes: Neil and Hugh
Graham, Jno.      Townland: Ballycreen Year: 1834
Graham, Jno.      Townland: Lower Ballykine Year: 1834
Graham, Jno.      Townland: Upper Ballykine Year: 1834
Graham, Jno., Esq.   Townland: South Ballymaglave Year: 1834
Graham, Neil      Townland: North Ballymacarn Year: 1834 Notes: Neil and Hugh
Graham, Thos.   Townland: Lower Ballykine Year: 1834

dathai how did you know the father deceased before1891
Good luck onwards unless i am in red herring land

[kathywithak]

On Samuel Minnis' marriage certificate in 1891, his father John Minnis is listed as a Shoemaker.  On Samuel Minnis' death cert in 1919, his father is listed as a deceased Master Shoemaker.

I assume the family left Ireland after the death of his wife Elizabeth Graham.  The last I know of her, EG, she was present at her daughter Mary Minnis Fox, when she delivered twins in 1880 in Ireland.

[kathywithak]

I just got the marriage cert out from 1891 between Samuel Minnis and Jessie Ansell. 
The marriage cert shows that John Minnis is already a deceased shoemaker.

I dont know if Samuel Minnis and his wife Elizabeth ever left Ireland, or just their kids did when they died? 

I am so interested in the women's lives and there is precious little to go on.

[kathywithak]

 BallyaltikilliganG

The Hawes Street address: 
Samuel Minnis lived there until he married his bride Jessie Ansell. 
On the marriage cert she is living at Parrmure (Pannmure?) Street. 

Family lure says she was a Forewoman in a Stocking Factory. 

I have never been able to verify which one or if its true. 

Any help or guidance would be so appreciated. 
 
Thank you so much!

[kathywithak]

dathai

Good point, It never even occurred to me not to look for them anywhere other than Ireland.  Of course you are right.  I should only be looking in Ireland.

Its often the simplist things that trip me up. 
I once spent a week looking for a Joe, when I should have been looking for a John.  Ugghh.

[BallyaltikilliganG]

Hi. you wanted the websites for irish census  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
where you will find 1911,1901, earlier will be with lots of luck luck as [1891. 1881, 1871, 1861,all destroyed] [1851, 1841, 1832, 1821 some few bits remain]

Are the date and place correct? "I have a Jessie M Ansell in my family, she was born May 03 1862 in Kilkeel Ireland and came over to UK in 1891.  She married Samuel Minnis.  Her first born son died in WW1, John Joseph Minnis." 

post 1901 Ansell records exist but with no Kilkeel Co Down connections eg Alfred Ansell a Jeweller .   aged 31 m Jeannie aged 31 with 2 children. Alfred was b Co Down. is living at 22 Malone Rd Belfast Co Antrim
pre 1901 Ansell records exist for Kilkeel Co Down eg no quick way of knowing if related
Henry   ANSELL Kilkeel husband of Emma Jane White; father of George b. 1866 & Richard John b. 8 Nov 1868 & Francis Joseph b. 6 Jan 1871 & Lucy Maude b. 4 Dec 1872 see see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/A/AmAp.htm#ann

You must have known Mary Ann Minnis existed,  I didn’t know, and found familysearch offered me these details
Mary Ann Minnis b? bbb 1862  d Jan-Mar 1910 ?.m date needed John Fox the blacksmith
notes only marriages found so far mary anne m lurgan1875 and 1879 see emerald ancestors
children
Robert Fox b 27 Jan 1878  Armagh, Ireland
Samuel Fox b19 Aug 1880  Ballymagone, Armagh
Thomas Fox b19 Aug 1880  Ballymagone, Armagh

Ballymagone, Armagh is in Drumcree civil parish. that means you could look up census substitute records eg Griffiths valuation and earlier the tithes applotment books  If you got the marriage certificate see GRONI for john Fox’s marriage, the detail may give location or other clues.
good luck

[dathai]

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY3V-922

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY3F-3YC