Bromyard, Herefordshire 1874

[Kay99]

I do it myself far too much 

Edit - Just noticed my typo above "Maria was baptised in 1831 in Clifton on Teme https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3Q8-W6V  "  The baptism was in 1825 

[Kay99]

Checked the records this morning

Both were listed as of Full Age with George's father listed as James Bint farmer and no father listed for Maria.   Witnesses were Samuel and Anne Jones   George was a miller and Maria made her mark

This may not help but whilst looking at Lower Sapey marriages I did see a marriage of a Benjamin Sanders to a Margaret Morgan in the parish on 24 Feb 1854.   Benjamin was age 22 - a labourer and Margaret 20 - Neither listed a father and the witnesses were illegible

In 1841 there is a possible Benjamin Sanders living in Lower Sapey with a John Walker 45, Hannah Walker 10 and Ruth Sanders 50 listed as Housekeeper.   They are next door but one from the Hill family I mentioned previously with daughter MaryHill.     In the 1851 census Ruth listed as 70 widow b Lower Sapey and still working as a housekeeper for John Walker.   In later census years Benjamin lists his birthplace as Edvin Ralph and wife appears to be listed as Mary Ann?   

I have been speculating that Ruth could be Maria and Ben's grandmother if she was 70 in 1851 but it is just speculation

Kay

[Eilleen]

Kay 

you little sweetie , thank you for your time and effort ,

I have just got home from work , so will digest all you have written in a little while .

I am still confused whether I should be putting the surname as Sanders or Saunders 

Eilleen.

was it a church they married in 

did it say the date of the marriage 

[Kay99]

Sorry - previous post was in rush as I was on the way to the dentist!   They married on 23 Dec 1847 at the St Johns church at Whitbourne about 3 miles from us http://www.whitbourne.org.uk/files/churches.shtml

Re the surname Sanders/Saunders - Maria couldn't write so I suppose it was just how the name was pronounced.   If Benjamin was related he appears as both Sanders and Saunders in census but marries under the name of Sanders.    Just noticed that Family Search lists Benjamin as marrying a Mary Ann Morgan so my eyes must be playing up but the writing was appalling!!

[Eilleen]

Thank you 

hope all was well at the dentist .

I really do appreciate your help, I have been struggling with Maria Sanders/Saunders

for ages on and off   

Eilleen.

[Kay99]

I had a root filling after an abscess but surprisingly pain free

I will have a fiddle but it does look as though Maria illegitimate.  I can see why you have a problem. 

Kay

[Kay99]

I have had a fiddle and I should just mention that the villages/parishes  Uppe/Lower Sapey,  Clifton  and Whitbourne are all on the boundaries of Herefordshire/Worcestershire and some have switched county in the past which can make searching more difficult

I haven’t  found anything that confirms that Ann Sanders mother of Maria was the wife of Thomas Hill or that the Ruth Saunders  and Benjamin Sanders were related to Maria so it  is still just a theory.    However I did find out at few more bits out about the families which might be relevant at some point

Relooking at the Thomas Hill, wife Ann and family who  lived  in Lower  Sapey  - Ann died between 1851 -55  and in 1855  it looks like Thomas  remarries   an Anne Stinton  - so in the 1861  census his wife is  still Ann but looses  20  years in age!!    So Ann Hill was born about 1802 and lists her birthplace in 1851 as Leigh, Worcestershire.  I suppose a birth cert of one of their children would confirm her maiden name

Looking at Ruth Sanders living and  working as a housekeeper in Lower Sapey in 1841/51 I found a few baptisms on Family Search  with parents Thomas and Ruth  Sanders at Upper Sapey/Sapey Pritchard
Elizabeth  Sanders 9 Sept 1810 Sapey Pritchard
Mary Sanders 15 July 1816 Upper Sapey
And another Elizabeth Sanders 25 Jan 1818 Upper Sapey

The National Burial Index has a burial of a Thomas Sanders age 47 in 1820 in Upper Sapey who could have been the husband of Ruth .    Ruth lists her birthplace in 1851 as Lower  Sapey in about 1781 and Family Search has a baptism  of a Ruth Stinton in Upper Sapey  in 1780 which could fit well   https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NF5M-XQH      Interesting that Thomas Hill’s second wife was also a Stinton

The eldest  daughter  I have found Elizabeth Sanders  1810 I think marries a John Welch  in 1849 with name  listed  as Ann Eliizabeth and father Thomas https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NF3F-MV8 
 
Sorry this is rambling on but just in case it is ever relevant

Kay

[Eilleen]

Kay 

Thank you so much , I will file all this information you have delved into ,

I feel certain it will fit in to place , once I have relevant back up paperwork 

from a very grateful Eilleen .

[Eilleen]

received birth certificate today.

it says her name was Ann Maria Bint , in 1871 census still called Ann Maria .

it says her birth date was 29th March 1861.

on 1881 census at the "Royal hotel " Grimsby , name Marie Bint aged 25,

on wedding cert age 26 , name Marie Bint

on 1939 register , name Marie . date of birth   13th Feb 1861

she certainly knew how to muddle things up for Me 

in her defense, I see why she would lie about her age to get a job at the "Royal hotel "

and why she would age 5 years on to her age at marriage she was only really 20, and her husband

was 47 . but why change your actual birthday 

on her birth cert , her Mothers name was Maria Sanders not Saunders.

Eilleen.