Ellen Vernon formerly McDonald

[Rosinish]

The 1891 I showed above, suggests that possibly Ellen was single?

Tomorrow should put that to bed     

Not even my family but I can't wait to find out what's on that cert. 

Annie

[Rosinish]

Don't we just love when there's a wee mystery lurking 

Reminds me of my awaiting for the arrival of my maternal g g/mother's birth cert.

She'd been in the household of her g/parents on consecutive census records from birth as g/daughter & my aunt was convinced her surname was that of her grandparents.
Her mother had sadly been widowed whilst carrying my g g/mother so this opened up a whole new chapter 

Annie

[Gardener]

Hi all is the OP sure Florence E was born 1877, as the Percy in 1891 is aged 4 and Florence 12 with an Ellen 35
In St George in the East?
Census ref RG12/304/100/3

Possible for George/Ellen/Florence in 1881 RG11/452/20/34?
Keyboard86

The 1891 I showed above, suggests that possibly Ellen was single?
Keyboard86

The 1891 entry says:

6 Diggon Street
Ellen Vernon Head S 35 Needlewoman Shirt King St Mile End
Florence ditto Daur 12 Streatfield St Bow
Percy Ditto son 4 Fairley St St George E

1901 has

59 Charles Street
Ellen McDonald Head Widow 42 Milliner London
Florence ditto Daur S 22 ditto London
Percy ditto Son 14 Errand Boy London

One possibility is that Ellen did not marry Mr McDonald, and there is this one

1871
8 King St
Henry Vernon head Mar 38 Boot Maker Essex Loughton
Louisa ditto Wife Mar 389 Kent Charnbrook
Ellen ditto Daur 15 Middlesex Mile End
Henry ditto Son 13 ditto
Emily ditto Daur 11 ditto
Charles ditto Son 9 ditto
Thomas ditto son 7 ditto
Alfred ditto Son 5 ditto

The family was at the same address on King Street in 1861 so I am pretty sure that this matches the 1891 entry where Ellen gives King Street as her birth place.

The problem is that in 1881 Ellen is listed with her family but there is no sign of Florence. Mind you, Ellen's father is absent too, and in 1891, but back with his wife in 1901, so who knows?

[Rosinish]

Interesting stuff Gardener 

So......Ellen was a Vernon by the look of things 

Annie

[Markly Darkly]

Yes interesting - all the evidence suggests Ellen is a Vernon, yet she appears to have a. George Vernon as a "partner" and father of her son Percy.

And more intrigue. It is mentioned that there is no sign of Florence with Ellen when she is living with parents in 1881. Well a freind of mine has found a Florence Vernon, aged 3, living with the Tregg? family in Chertsey and she is listed as a foundling (RG11/768). Right age, right surname and not far away!!!!!!!

[Cas (stallc)]

Hi, do you have Percy's birth details. If so what do they say father George?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XRC-B29

Would maybe help knowing who informant on Ellen Vernon\Mcdonald death cert, when did she die? To know who gave the info as husband Montague.

I think Gardener has it correct with Ellen/Parents on census. Also daughter found in 1881, foundling looks fostered? cannot see any tie to Tregg.

 Do not think she married up to 1901, possibly not at all with husband given at death and info found. Also very likely different birth fathers?

But think it was Montague she prob wanted, but he now married..named in 1901 to save face to her kids and respectable widow...scenario possible.


Cas

[Markly Darkly]

Hi, do you have Percy's birth details. If so what do they say father George?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XRC-B29

Would maybe help knowing who informant on Ellen Vernon\Mcdonald death cert, when did she die? To know who gave the info as husband Montague



I think Gardener has it correct with Ellen/Parents on census. Also daughter found in 1881, foundling looks fostered? cannot see any tie to Tregg.

 Do not think she married up to 1901, possibly not at all with husband given at death and info found. Also very likely different birth fathers?

Cas

Hi Cas

Percy born 21 Feb 1887.
Father George Vernon. 
Mother Ellen Vernon, formerly McDonald
31 Tarling Street
Registered 1 April 1887

Will check Ellen death certificate tonight when I get home..

[Markly Darkly]

OK, I now have Florence's birth certificate.

Born 1st September 1878
(that ties in with a note in my mum's birthday book)

Name: Florence McDonald

Mother: Ellen Vernon

Father: Left blank

[GenesA]

The father's name being left blank on the certificate suggests that the mother wasn't married to the father when the child was born. I don't think Ellen was married to Montague McDonald but it seems that Ellen used the surname McDonald to acknowledge that Montague was Florence's father. I have an example in my tree where the father's name was William Paterson and the mother's name was Reid. The child was named William Paterson Reid. It looks like your Ellen Vernon did a similar thing when she named Florence.