Owen James Williams,Thomas Hartley Williams,Albert Williams,Arthur Williams,Fran

[tom-dick]

Suzard,thank you very much for your help,I recieved the names of Gladys Ethel siblings from a distant relative.I am fairly certain that Thomas and Margaret are the parents due to the fact that Thomas worked on the Liverpool docks,but to be certain I will order the marriage cert for Gladys Ethel and find out for certain.I will leave it until I receive it,until then thank you for your time,tom

[KGarrad]

The marriage certificate will only show the father's name - which is Thomas in both cases!

Mother's names are only shown on the Birth Certificate.

Thomas, husband of Margaret, is a cordwainer on the 1901 census; and the family are in Nantwich.
Thomas, husband of Catherine, is a Docks labourer; the family come from Liverpool & Birkenhead.

[suzard]

The marriage certificate will only show the father's name - which is Thomas in both cases!

Mother's names are only shown on the Birth Certificate.

Thomas, husband of Margaret, is a cordwainer on the 1901 census; and the family are in Nantwich.
Thomas, husband of Catherine, is a Docks labourer; the family come from Liverpool & Birkenhead.

Thomas husband of Margaret is a Cordwainer (shoemaker)
but Thomas husband of Catherine is a Clerk at the docks (haven't seen him listed as a labourer) in an earlier census he is a bookkeeper
so occupations are quite different

Look forward to hearing when the certificate arrives -who and when did Gladys Ethel marry ?

Suz

[Neptune]

Hi
Maybe this is worth bearing in mind -
Army records survive (on a couple of well known sites) for a Thomas Hartley Williams born 1891.
He gives his address in 1909 as 53 Victoria Road Tranmere Birkenhead. He is employed as a clerk for Mersey Docks and Harbour Board. A couple of years later he is at the same address with siblings Owen James, Gladys Ethel and Charles Erskine. Father Thomas is the head of household and is also employed by Mersey Docks and Harbour Board. Thomas senior's mother Helen is living there too.

Later Army records show Thomas Hartley Williams enlisted in the Cheshire Regiment 1914(army number 2361). His address is 7 Elm Grove Birkenhead. He was discharged in 1915 due to ill health.

I couldn't find another Thomas Hartley Williams (1891) but hopefully the marriage certificate for Gladys Ethel will help.

Regards

Neptune

[tom-dick]

Thank you Neptune,Suzard and K Garrad for your help,the information is very useful,it was very observant of Suzard to find out another Ethel.I still think it was the above family.Neptune,do you think that Thomas saw active service in w.w.1?Did any of the other brothers sign up?Also would Nantwich,Birkinghead and Moels be near Liverpool,especially in the years that these people lived in.I am thinking along the lines of Liverpool docks and trade.I am assuming that a lot of men enlisted in w.w.1.from this area.I have ordered the marriage cert,it will take a month approx as I live in OZ.Once again many thanks for your time and help,tom

[KGarrad]

Birkenhead is on the opposite bank of the River Mersey to Liverpool.
While the south bank of the Mersey was in Cheshire, Nantwich is at the other end of Cheshire, some 44 miles away.

Where does Moels fit in (as you haven't mentioned it before?)
Did you mean Meols, which is 6 miles from Birkenhead, on the northern coast of Cheshire and the Wirral.

[Neptune]

Hi -
I only looked for Thomas Hartley as he has a more distinct name.
From what I can understand from the records he originally joined the Territorial Army in 1909 until 1912 but would probably still be employed in his regular job.
When war broke out in 1914 he enlisted in the Cheshire Regiment (14/9/14). I assume he would have been in training. However Thomas was medically discharged on 22/4/15. He had suffered from pneumonia in 1911 and had emphysema and a collapsed lung.
Although he did sign up I don't think he was able to go on active service due to sickness. He was refused an Army Pension but awarded a gratuity of £20.00.
Thomas Hartley Williams was awarded the Silver War Badge.

If you think this is the correct Thomas please let me know as I'm happy to send you a personal message with some details.

Regards

Neptune

[suzard]

look forward to hearing what the marriage cert states.
When and where and who did Gladys Ethel marry? (in case we can find more out during the wait)
Whichever parents are correct I think the children of both families have been put together .
Easily done with a not uncommon name like Williams

Suz

[ScouseBoy]

Thank you Neptune,Suzard and K Garrad for your help,the information is very useful,it was very observant of Suzard to find out another Ethel.I still think it was the above family.Neptune,do you think that Thomas saw active service in w.w.1?Did any of the other brothers sign up?Also would Nantwich,Birkinghead and Moels be near Liverpool,especially in the years that these people lived in.I am thinking along the lines of Liverpool docks and trade.I am assuming that a lot of men enlisted in w.w.1.from this area.I have ordered the marriage cert,it will take a month approx as I live in OZ.Once again many thanks for your time and help,tom                       

                     
Liverpool  and Birkenhead  are  close together.    Separated  by the River Mersey