a grumble about archives.

[Ruskie]

Understandably, the NHS has to follow rules regarding access to confidential patient data.

       The trouble is  that  when it comes to doctors giving verbal   information,  there is no consistency  from the medical profession.      Consequently,   many families  are not given accurate information to be able to care for  their relatives appropriately.

This thread relates to someone who has been dead since 1979, and it concerns historical records. Not being given accurate information by the medical profession in order to care for relatives is irrelevant to this thread, and it is debatable (preferably elsewhere  .

Eilleen, If the Archives requested information from the NHS is there anything preventing you from applying directly to the NHS? I don't know if that would be an easier or more difficult route to take.

Am I correct in thinking that the registers for St Johns were deposited at the Archives and no other institution retains copies of these records?

I think you should try again. 

[stanmapstone]

Is this St John's Hospital, Bracebridge Heath? Lincolnshire Archives state that " Medical records and other records of patients are closed for 100 years from the date of the last entry. Permission to view more recent records should be addressed in writing to the Collections Access Team Leader, who will liaise with the relevant authorities."
http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplaySearchResults.aspx?oid=1400903&mode=c
The records they have are listed at http://www.lincstothepast.com/Records/RecordDisplaySearchResults.aspx?oid=821029&mode=c

Stan

[Eilleen]

Ruskie and Stan , Thank you both for your thoughts ,

I do not believe they have been  deposited anywhere else ?

The search at the moment is trying to find elderly  living relative's from the Gentleman's Mother's

family, with the hope that one of them might have an old photograph of her.

but because of the time period and the fact she did not come from the area where she was

incarcerated , and the Gentleman was never given any information about his Mothers family this is

proving quiet a task  , I have found some of her siblings  and who they married etc, but time is

running out .

once again that you for you help .

[Eilleen]

I found this very interesting , not st Johns , but happening everywhere .

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/mps-win-mental-patients-freedom

[LizzieW]

Thanks for that KGarrad.

so regarding dead people , it say's kept for 10 years then destroyed 

The papers for St John's mental hospital , much come under a different rule,

because He has been told He can see them in 2044 

I have the same problem with my g.uncle.  He went into a mental hospital in 1907 and died there in 1964 but despite the Mental Hospital authorities telling me I could have the records, unfortunately, they had been passed to Manchester Archives and they will not let me have them until he has been dead for 100 years, despite that he never married and had no children, so I and any other remaining g.nephews and nieces are his nearest ancestors.  I will be 123 in 1864 so I won't get to see the records.  I did persuade them to send me his admission sheet (dated 1907) by telling them that one of my sons had had a mental problem and I wanted to see if it was hereditary.  My son had an episode of depression, which he got over fairly quickly, thankfully, but at least I wasn't telling a lie when I asked for my g.uncle's admission sheet.  It did give a diagnosis (Mania and Delusions) and a photograph of him as a man, looking very like he did on his photograph as a child.  I am going to try again, in the hopes that a different archivist 8 years later might have a different view on the matter as it is now over 50 years since my g.uncle died.  In any case the rules concerning Data Protection only applies to living persons - Data Protection Act 1998 (amended) and there is no 100 year rule. This was a rule brought in under the auspices of the Public Records Act 1958 and repealed by the Freedom of Information Act 2000 Schedule 8 Part II (Repeals coming into force in accordance with section 87(2)). 

Eileen - perhaps you could try writing again quoting the above to them and see if they give way.

[Eilleen]

LizzieW ,

I have had lots of people getting in touch with their terribly sad stories,

like the film show's , the Gentleman who I am trying to help  his Mother was admitted in 1944

but by 1959 she could have been released, but as the film say's in no uncertain terms , it was

because other's wanted them put in and kept in.

it does not help that this  lady was married to a prominent local family of doctor's,

so hey ho,  send her in with post natal depression, then make sure she stay's there .

not going to release those kind of papers, or those kind of papers were destroyed by helpful friends

of the doctor , heck I am ranting again, makes my blood boil 

[Eilleen]

In any case the rules concerning Data Protection only applies to living persons - Data Protection Act 1998 (amended) and there is no 100 year rule. This was a rule brought in under the auspices of the Public Records Act 1958 and repealed by the Freedom of Information Act 2000 Schedule 8 Part II (Repeals coming into force in accordance with section 87(2)). 

LizzieW  Thank you for the above that is very interesting, will look in to it 

[LizzieW]

Eileen - My story is not as sad as yours.  As far as I know my g.uncle was placed in the mental hospital quite properly, it's only sad that he lived his whole adult life there, when nowadays he would probably have been in the community with medication.  My mum said she went with her mum (my g.uncle's sister) to visit him around 1919-1920 when my mum would have been 8 or 9.  She said she was really worried beforehand having this image of a "lunatic" which is what they used to be called.  In fact she said when they got to the mental hospital, he was in the grounds working as a gardener - his real trade was a butcher - and she said he seemed perfectly normal.  I know people with mania and delusions do have normal times, so I guess this must have been one of them.  I don't know how long his family visited him for, I always knew I had a g.uncle in a mental asylum.  As far as I know, his siblings all died before he did, in 1933, 1949 (my gran), 1953 and one other whose death I can't find (definitely after 1949 as she was at my gran's funeral).

[Eilleen]

Like you Lizzie  , I to had a Great uncle who was admitted , this was St Johns, Bracebridge, admitted about 1968 , my Mum and her Aunt use to visit regularly , and the same as you, He was mainly working in the garden's and loved it, He could not come home because all though He was a really gentle man and loved his wife very much, He would have the urge to wack her over the head, on reflection it was maybe some form of dementia.