Author Topic: National Archive Look up for ADM records  (Read 6156 times)

Offline Genie24

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National Archive Look up for ADM records
« on: Wednesday 24 August 16 21:53 BST (UK) »
I was wondering if there is anyone who regularly visits the National Archives and could possible look up a record for me. The record is ADM 51/3421 which relates to an Admiralty Captain's Log.
I have found a death record which I think may be my great x 3 grandfather John Davis from Sunderland. He was a mariner on all four children's baptism records and died some time before 1837 when my great x 3 grandmother re-married a customs officer. I assumed he died at sea with no record of it. I have been unsuccesful finding a death until today when I found a record of a John Davis who was buried in Christ Church Tynemouth after dying on board HM Samarang. The death record stated that the captain was William F. Martin and the vessel was now in that harbour. The date of burial was 24th February 1831 the day after my great x 2 grandmother was born. She was the only child out of four that survived. Her brother was buried a month before.
I have subsequently found a will for a John Davis written on board the Samarang in the presence of Captain William F. Martin on the 19th February 1831 so just before his death. However, it gives no information that identifies him such as address etc. This was on the National Archives but there was a link to Ancestry so I could view it with my subscription.
The ADM 51/3431 record is the Captain's Log books:
Samarang 1822 Jan 1-1822 July 26
Samarang 1824 Feb 13 - 1831-Feb  28
So the last part should cover the event of his death a few days before the 24th February and  ???feel sure it will be included in the Captain's Log.
Alternatively, can anyone help me to find the crew lists for the Samarang for that period.

Many thanks in advance
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 25 August 16 00:49 BST (UK) »
Hi.

I'm planning to be there on Saturday week so will have a look for you
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline Genie24

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 25 August 16 00:58 BST (UK) »
Hi that is so kind and I really appreciate it. I live too far away to go and the record is not digitised so not able to be purchased. You can order copies which by past experience are extortionate. I paid a lot of money for my grandad's   RAF records. I need to confirm or ignore this information either way. I feel sure it is him but need absolute proof. I am very grateful.
Julie
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline Genie24

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 27 August 16 12:03 BST (UK) »
I have found out a little more information about the above. John Davis was buried in Tynemouth before HMS Samarang arrived in Harbour although his death records stated he was of HMS Samarang. He signs his will on the 19th February 1831 in the presence of the Captain W. F. (Fanshawe) Martin and 2nd Lieutenant William Shepheard. Another source says he is first Lieutenant and he is later promoted to Commander on 3rd June 1831. John was  buried on the 24th February 5 days after writing his will so he must have known his death was imminent.
HMS Samarang was a wooden frigate based in the Mediterranean Station. I have found the movements of the ship from a Naval Database, which confirms that on the 9th March 1831 it arrived in Portsmouth from Eastward, Capt. W. F Martin in command. On 20th April it departed Portsmouth with a party of 84 marines for Tynemouth Castle. So this means he died somewhere in the Mediterranean and was taken to Tynemouth by another ship.
His will states that his ship number was 70 and he was Quartermaster of four ships - Samarang, Blonde and two others which I can't make out. He appoints Robert Dundas and Sir Robert Sepping of the Royal Navy as Executors and bequeathes his goods and chattels, wearing apparel, wages and money owed to him to fellow seaman William (surname difficult to read but looks like Purkidell) ship number 97.
I have also discovered that Crew Agreements were introduced after this period so the information would be on the Musther Rolls for the Samarang. Apparently Musther Rolls did not contain as much information as Crew Agreements. I need to find some identifiable information such as abode or next of kin.
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall


Offline StevieSteve

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 28 August 16 08:43 BST (UK) »
Hi

Can we discount

Another source says he is first Lieutenant and he is later promoted to Commander on 3rd June 1831

given that he had been dead 4 months?
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE

Offline Bookbox

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 28 August 16 10:00 BST (UK) »
As suggested above, you seem to be looking at a number of different people here with the same name.

On the face of it, the will you have found does not look like the will of a married man with a wife/family, since everything is bequeathed to his fellow-seaman William Pucknell.

The captain's log in ADM 51 may report his death, as you suggest, but it is very unlikely to tell you anything about the man's origins, abode or next of kin.

The ship's musters in ADM 37 may give you his place of birth, which may or may not have been correctly recorded. There is no provision in these records for listing place of abode or next of kin. The muster for Samarang covering his date of his death in 1831 is ADM 37/7743 (1830 Nov - 1831 June). It would probably be wise to check a few preceding musters too. (Crew agreements, by the way, are a feature of the merchant service, not of the Royal Navy.)

When trying to identify RN seamen at this period it can also be helpful to look at the allotment registers in ADM 27. These give details of any pay allotted to dependants back home. They may provide the name and parish of abode of a wife/mother. Most allotment registers have now been indexed on Discovery, but (after only a brief search) John Davis does not seem to be showing in the allotments for Samarang at this period.

ADDED - from the will, the other ships on which he had served are Blonde, Iphigenia and Hyperion.

Offline Genie24

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 28 August 16 13:27 BST (UK) »
Can we discount

Another source says he is first Lieutenant and he is later promoted to Commander on 3rd June 1831

given that he had been dead 4 months?

Many thanks for both replies. I am sorry that I have caused some  confusion. The above information was in relation to William Shepheard who was one of the witnesses to the signing of his will.

I am aware that this will does seem to be for an unmarried man but given that this burial record for a John Davis is the only possibility I have at the moment and his age fits. What I am trying do do is find sufficient information either confirm him as my  great x 3 grandfather of eliminate him completely from my enquiries. I also wonder that if the will was drawn up hastily, maybe they were not aware he had a wife. His three children had all pre-deceased him and his fourth child (my great, great grandmother) was born the day before his burial. It is not impossible. I operate on a 'leave no stone unturned' basis.

Thank you so much for the references for the Ships Musters and Allotment Registers which I will look into.  I have to admit that I find the National Archinve Discovery Catalogue very confusing and difficult to use. I have managed to find a lot in the past but some records are more difficult to locate.

Thanks again to both of you.
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline Genie24

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 28 August 16 21:30 BST (UK) »
I also have not been able to find any record for a John Davis on the Allotment registers. I  wasn't aware of them. They do give quite a lot of detail. The Musther Rolls look promising but it  is difficult living so far away from The National Archives. There is a register of Sick Book Records for the Samarang but not for the period I am looking for just 1846-1847.
Anderson/Andersson, Imison, Lang, Humble, Mallinder, Brett, Ridley, Ferries, Hall

Offline StevieSteve

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Re: National Archive Look up for ADM records
« Reply #8 on: Monday 29 August 16 19:58 BST (UK) »
OK, I've ordered the Captain's Log and the last Muster Roll to be ready & waiting for when I arrive

I'll try and post any results from site, in case anyone can suggest the best direction to take from there
Middlesex: KING,  MUMFORD, COOK, ROUSE, GOODALL, BROWN
Oxford: MATTHEWS, MOSS
Kent: SPOONER, THOMAS, KILLICK, COLLINS
Cambs: PRIGG, LEACH
Hants: FOSTER
Montgomery: BREES
Surrey: REEVE