William Charles Kirtland

[rosie99]

That William Charles Kirtland has abode as Colnbrook so I assume it is the one we have with parents John & Grace.

I can't see anything on the WCK born Windsor reg district.  I had thought the Colnbrook one was him but all evidence points that one to the Richmond birth.

[isobelw]

I wonder if William Charles Kirtland born 1878 in Windsor might be the son of Emma Kirtland who married William Low in Windsor in 1878. The family are in Windsor in 1881 ( under Lowe on Ancestry) and include a Charles age 2. He appears on some later census as Charles William Low(e). There are a couple of trees on Ancestry for this family which claim that Charles William Low(e) was born in Windsor in 1879 but there is no matching birth on FreeBMD. I wonder if he was born just prior to the marriage and recorded as Kirtland. His names could have been switched round later to differentiate him from his father.
Isobel

[rosie99]

I think that isobelw could have solved that but it looks like the only way to check would be by buying the birth certificate.

William Low's first wife Charlotte died March qtr 1878.  WCK was born June qtr 1878 so unlikely to be the son of William Low but they could have married as William would have needed someone to look after his two sons John & Samuel.

Emma (nee Kirtland is 25 bn Slough, also there Charlotte Kirtland age 17 Emma's sister)

[Nifty1]

From another enquiry
I am wondering if there is any connection between Emma Lipscomb/Servant, (in hotel (?) near Windsor bridge) Nursemaid/48/ b abt. 1803 and William Lipscombe b. abt. 1823 • Longwick, Buckinghamshire. It seems possible. A lady of that same name, my great grandmother's maiden name, b. Cookham Dean1849. She died in Windsor in 1917 (Spanish flue ?) Her husband, Thomas James Kirtland, originally a blacksmith who came to Windsor from Oxfordshire between 1860 and 1870, became the landlord of The Coach and horses in Oxford road. Thomas died in 1909. I think that his introduction to the hotel trade may have been through connections that his wife had. Has anybody any knowledge / thoughts on this hypothesis?
I have researched the Kirtlnds in windsor quite extensively but still cant make any connection with those in Eton.

[rosie99]

From another enquiry
I am wondering if there is any connection between Emma Lipscomb/Servant, (in hotel (?) near Windsor bridge) Nursemaid/48/ b abt. 1803

That entry is not at all clear with her age and could be 18 or 48, shame there is no place of birth.  I wonder if she is related to Joseph Lipscomb & his wife Sarah Sophia in the property next door.  Joseph was 35 born Harmondsworth, Middx and his wife was born London. They married in Harmondsworth in 1840, Josephs father was William (mother Alice).

[Nifty1]

Thanks for that Rosie.
I am rather confused.  So many significant names. Such a pest of parents  giving their  children the same names through sucsessive  generations. I think that  Sophia may have subsequently moved to London though I have no evidence of that.

[Nifty1]

I have just been looking at some original documnts that could show some sort of a deeper linkage between the Lipscomb's and the Kirtland's.
It has just come to my notice that the Will of WC's son, James Kirtland's (d. 1909) widow, Emma nee Lipscombe. (d1917) of Cookham, was signed in the presence of Edward Hicks of Oxford road Windsor and   David H. G. Lipscombe of 73 High Street, Eton.
I wonder if anyone could tell me more?
Also
Between October and November 1898 when James Kirtland brought the freehold rights of via an outstanding mortgage (?) no 3 &  4 South Place, Windsor,  from a Mr C. (Charles) Dobner.
This deal  included his selling lot 10 of Clewer House Estate to Sir George Henry Long for £235.
(I am not sure if this was the house that he was previously living in or a block of land?)
I am wondering if  anyone  can help me locate find an on-line period  map  of Windsor to be able to determine if this is the same plot that became The Coach & Horses pub at 32 Oxford Rd.

[rosie99]

Before I look at your latest post, going back to this as we now have access to mmn on the GRO index

I wonder if William Charles Kirtland born 1878 in Windsor might be the son of Emma Kirtland who married William Low in Windsor in 1878. The family are in Windsor in 1881 ( under Lowe on Ancestry) and include a Charles age 2. He appears on some later census as Charles William Low(e). There are a couple of trees on Ancestry for this family which claim that Charles William Low(e) was born in Windsor in 1879 but there is no matching birth on FreeBMD. I wonder if he was born just prior to the marriage and recorded as Kirtland. His names could have been switched round later to differentiate him from his father.
Isobel

Looks like Isobel could be right
KIRTLAND, WILLIAM  CHARLES No mothers maiden name
1878  June Quarter
WINDSOR reg district  Volume 02C  Page 445

[rosie99]

I have just been looking at some original documnts that could show some sort of a deeper linkage
Between October and November 1898 when James Kirtland brought the freehold rights of via an outstanding mortgage (?) no 3 &  4 South Place, Windsor,  from a Mr C. (Charles) Dobner.
This deal  included his selling lot 10 of Clewer House Estate to Sir George Henry Long for £235.
(I am not sure if this was the house that he was previously living in or a block of land?)
I am wondering if  anyone  can help me locate find an on-line period  map  of Windsor to be able to determine if this is the same plot that became The Coach & Horses pub at 32 Oxford Rd.

[/b]

You might be best posting the request for a map separately as there are people on here that know where to look 

ADDED I see that you have now done that