Joseph Glover - Fethard - Land Steward - Grove?

[Gilby]

Thanks to the images now available on irishgenealogy.ie I have just discovered that my great great grandfather was a gardener/land steward.

His name was Joseph (Elijah/Edward) Glover born c1847, died 19th Feb 1899 in Dublin.  The births of his children give me an idea of his career progression:

1873 – Croom, Co Limerick (“Gardener”)
1875 – Croom, Co Limerick (“Gardener”)
1877 – Moore Street, Fethard / Grove, Co Tipperary (“Steward”)
1878 – Moore Street, Fethard / Grove, Co Tipperary (“Steward”)
1880 – Grove, Co Tipperary (“Land steward”)
1884 – Grove, Co Tipperary (“Land steward”)

Previously I’d been stumped by this place called “Grove”, but now I know he was a steward I wonder if he worked for the owners of Grove House in Fethard. 

So I’m interested if anyone has any insights into what such a job might have involved.  Would gardener to land steward have been a normal career path?

Also, is there anyone with local knowledge who knows about Fethard and Grove / Grove House.  Could I be barking up the wrong tree?

Cheers,
Gilby

[Maggsie]

Hi,
Grove House and Grove Estate in Fethard.
2 families lived there, Everard and Barton.
I helped some years back in a search for this, Plantation time!
Something to do with the Tipperary Fox Hounds.
Sorry but I will be out all day today.
If you google/search you will find it.
Maggsie

[aghadowey]

Gardener to "Land Steward" may not have been that big a leap in position. I've seen cases, on marriage certificates for example, where occupation of father is given as 'land steward' even though he would only have looked after a few acres for one of the large houses (not grand estates).

If you google "grove house fethard tipperary" lots of information does come up such as-

lovely old colour map- http://fethard.com/barton/
http://fethard.com/people/more_web_articles/bartons_of_grove.html

[Gilby]

Thanks both.

I’m actually struggling to locate “Grove House” …?  I had found the Fethard website and that map, but I can’t see where the house was.  I’m assuming the Grove Estate included the whole village.

I wasn’t sure whether there was any difference between gardener and steward.  And actually on at least one of the certs after his death (I think the marriage of one of his sons) he was still referred to as a gardener.

What matters I suppose, is whether I can assume he worked on the Grove Estate – and therefore might I be able to find mention of him in the estate records (if there are any).

All I know is he was a gardener/steward and lived at “Grove” though two of his children were actually born at “Moore Street, Fethard.”  Can I be sure he worked on the estate?  Would he have lived there? 

[Maggsie]

Hi the nearest I can get you to it is.......
https://www.bing.com/mapspreview?&ty=18&q=Mullinahone&satid=id.sid%3a1433cc18-b033-fe02-a4f4-b44c9634ce07&mb=52.516712~-7.51283~52.502869~-7.49256&ppois=52.5112380981445_-7.50552988052368_Mullinahone_~&cp=52.511238~-7.50553&v=2&sV=1
where you see the blue spot on Mullinahone, draw out slowly until you can see Fethard, zoom back in slowly keeping an eye on Fethard, you will see a river, where the river meets this is called Cramps Bridge. If you look in like the triangle of the rivers this is where the House is/was.
At one time you could tour around the roads with a street view on the map, but I noticed this isn't available now, I don't know why.
Anyway that's about the nearest I can get you to it. It's near the area called Crampscastle road number R692.
I hope this has helped.
Maggsie

[Sinann]

Grove House
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,622965,633788,10,9

[Sinann]

If you put Grove,
Tipperary South Riding (in County)
and have a look at just how much land Barton owns on that one page, it will give you an idea of just how big the Estate was.
Often these Estate's are known by the name of one townland in the Estate but cover lots of townlands around the area. Grove House probable got it's name from the area of trees to it's left, and so Barton's lands got the name of his house, Grove Estate.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

Should add, click on Occupants for Grove, than on Original Page.
and after looking at that page have a look at the one before and after it, Barton owns almost everything.

[Gilby]

I see, thanks.  It’s actually quite obvious now you’ve pointed it out.  I can just catch glimpses from the road. 

Yes I guessed the estate would be pretty huge when I read they paid £30k for bit way back then – that must have been a hell of a lot.

They certainly had a pretty big garden going by the OS and Griffiths maps, so I’m sure they had plenty of gardeners.