Author Topic: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s  (Read 1686 times)

Offline matth364

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W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« on: Monday 26 September 16 00:06 BST (UK) »
Hello,
Am hoping someone can help us.  We're told that my husband's Bell ancestors come from Jedburgh.  Son Adam came to Ontario, Canada.  He married Jane Symington (Lanark, Scotland) in Ontario in March, 1864.  The marriage registration lists Adam's d of b Jan. 16, 1839, "W" for his father, and Agnes for his mother.  We'd like to find information or early registrations for Adam, or his parents, and a place of burial for his parents.  We also know that he had a sister Bella. 
Any help would be much appreciated. 
Jean (Calgary, Alberta, Canada) 

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Online Ruskie

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #1 on: Monday 26 September 16 01:15 BST (UK) »
If you are searching for Scottish ancestors you will need the website Scotland's People. This is currently unavailable as it is undergoing an upgrade, but should be up and running again soon.

FamilySearch also has some Scottish records.

With those names, you need to be careful that you are following the correct family of Bells. W is possibly going to be William. Both forenames and surname are very common in Scotland. (I have some in my research). Adam not so common .... :)

Did the place of origin of Jedburgh come from an official document or was it from a family story?

When did Adam go to Canada? Did any other family members also go to Canada?

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Offline loobylooayr

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #2 on: Monday 26 September 16 02:01 BST (UK) »
Hi Jean,

Like Ruskie has suggested, do you know any other info on Adam Bell. When did he arrive in Canada? Where does the location of Jedburgh come from? What were the names of the couple Adam and Jane Bell's children in order of birth. Names of offspring including middle names can be good clues to grandparents.

Looby :)

Offline Annette7

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #3 on: Monday 26 September 16 02:29 BST (UK) »
There is only one Adam Bell of the right age born Jedburgh in 1851 Census:

Lanton, Jedburgh

David Bell     71       House Proprietor and Grocer      born Jedburgh, Roxburghshire
Adam Bell son  46     Tailor                                      born Wilton, Roxb.
Isabella Bell  dau.  34                                             born Ancrum, Roxb.
Sarah Bell     dau.  31                                             born Eckford, Roxb.
George L. Bell  son  23                                            born Crailing, Roxb.
Adam Bell   grandson  2                                           born Jedburgh
Thomas Rutherford  grandson  12                                   ditto

1841 - Lanton, Jedburgh

David Bell    60         Grocer
Margaret Bell  58
David Bell   19   Tailor
George Bell  14
Jannet Fairburn 5
Adam Hardie  2

Now, I don't know if you are aware, but it was quite common in Scotland for illegitimate children to grow up with their natural fathers surname and, indeed, often with their paternal family.   In 1841 there is no Adam Bell in Jedburgh, and bearing in mind that in 1851 grandson Adam Bell is 12 and with paternal grandfather David Bell, I would think that Adam 'Hardie' 2 and Adam Bell are one and the same.   This would indicate his parents were not married.   

I cannot find a W. Bell married to an Agnes Hardie on familysearch so quite who 'W' is I don't know.

David Bell was married to Margaret Brown but few birth entries on familysearch (perhaps more revealed on Scotlands People) for their children - looks like they married ca.1805 and can only find 3 births on familysearch:

Thomas born 15/2/1808 Crailing, Roxburghshire son of David Bell and Margaret Brown
David born 13/4/1822 Crailing,                    ditto
George Lily born 18/12/1827 Crailing,          ditto

plus - from census' we know there were also:

Adam bc.1805 Welton, Roxb.
Isabella bc.1817 Ancrum, Roxb.
Sarah bc.1820 Eckford, Roxb.
plus a 'W'?   
plus a Janet bc.1811 Bowden, Roxb.
 
Is it definitely a 'W' shown for his father or could it have been a badly written 'A'?   I can't see the Adam Bell bc.1805 on census after 1851 (but then he may have died which we can't confirm at the moment with SP site down) and wondered whether Adam was his father (shown as unmarried 1851) and both of them possibly went to Canada??  Perhaps I'm just clutching at straws!

The 1851 census also shows at Southdean, Roxburghshire:

Thomas Sword   37     Shepherd     born Southdean
Janet Sword  40                            born Bowden
Margaret Sword 5
John Sword 7mos
Janet Fairbairne 15  stepdaughter
Isabella Bell 5   niece

Clearly, the stepdaughter is the Jannet 5 with David Bell in 1841, so her mother Janet is another daughter of David - Thomas Sword married Janet Bell 11/12/1846 Jedburgh.   This would suggest that dau. Janet Fairburn/Fairbaine bc.1836 was also illegitimate but raised with her natural fathers surname, like Adam.   So, if Isabella Bell is Adam Bell's sister Bella (as seems likely) was her mother also Agnes Hardie or possibly someone else??   Such a nuisance that SP site is down right now.

This posting turned out longer than I thought!

Annette

 
                         
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Offline loobylooayr

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #4 on: Monday 26 September 16 02:43 BST (UK) »
Hi Annette,

I also looked at that family on 1851 Census at Lanton, Jedburgh.
The transcription on Freecen however has the householder as William Bell (obviously the real deal Census on Scotlands People should clear that up) and I wondered if the W stood for the grandfather who had raised him :/


Looby :)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #5 on: Monday 26 September 16 03:06 BST (UK) »
I agree Looby,

Likely to be g/father & probably never knew any different.

Annie
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Offline Annette7

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #6 on: Monday 26 September 16 12:06 BST (UK) »
Just wanted to point out that it only shows 'William' as head for 1851 on FreeCen and I believe this is an error!    On 3 other transcription sites it is David and ties in with the 1841 Census - also the George L. Bell son shown in 1851 is confirmed by birth on familysearch as son of David and Margaret as in 1841 census.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #7 on: Monday 26 September 16 16:19 BST (UK) »
Just wanted to point out that it only shows 'William' as head for 1851 on FreeCen and I believe this is an error!    On 3 other transcription sites it is David and ties in with the 1841 Census - also the George L. Bell son shown in 1851 is confirmed by birth on familysearch as son of David and Margaret as in 1841 census.

Annette

Yes Annette - It probably is an error on Freecen 1851 Census - although rather an odd one William instead of David  ??? However as I said looking at the real Census on Scotlands People would hopefully clear up that mix -up.
To be honest I have found it very hard to find some of the Bells from 1851 on the 1841 Census. Adam Bell , aged 46 and a tailor for instance. I cannot find a match 10 years earlier  (I had wondered if he was the father of Adam Hardie/Bell.  :(   ) .

Looby

Offline matth364

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 28 September 16 17:01 BST (UK) »
Many thanks to everyone for their quick replies!  I'm so appreciative of the questions, information you've looked up, and suggestions.  I will look up some more details so that can reply to you all as soon as possible.  Jean