Author Topic: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s  (Read 1587 times)

Offline terry h

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 29 September 16 18:40 BST (UK) »
Hi,

Scotlands People has Adams birth as....... Adam Hardie b 25/1/1839, baptised 20/10/1839 Jedburgh Associate Church, parents John Hardie/Agnes Easton Bell. Hope this is of some help.

Terry

Added - On family search - Agnes Easton Bell married a James Scott 26/11/1845, Jedburgh.   Children born to Agnes -  Adam Hardie 1839,  Jessie Scott 22/2/1844, William Scott 23/5/1846,  Agnes Wilson Scott 23/5/1846, David Lillie Scott 3/9/1850, James Scott 19/10/1850, all baptised on dates shown at Jedburgh Free Church.
g grandfather Thomas Borthwick 11/11/1882 - KIA 25/9/1915 aged 33 Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Brothers & cousins to Thomas (Both KIA same day)
Robert Johnstone Borthwick 1898 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 21 North Staffordshire Regiment

George Lowden Borthwick 1899 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 19 Royal Scots Fusiliers

gr Uncle Walter Combe b1893 - KIA 12/7/1915 aged 22  Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright  GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

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Offline matth364

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #10 on: Friday 30 September 16 03:02 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much, Terry!  I shall happily pursue this information for my husband's family.  Over the last couple of days, I have pulled out what I had and had been working on a response to the group in answer to all their questions.   I'll post that too, even though this new information tonight will make a lot of it irrelevant (or so we hope!)
Sincerely, Jean

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Offline matth364

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #11 on: Friday 30 September 16 03:28 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone, and again, thanks so much for your replies and suggestions.   
***An update tonight - as suggested, it appears that Adam might actually have been born a Hardie. The dates of birth are almost exact…and his mother’s name provides the strongest clue.  I will begin working in this new direction….. In the meantime, here is what I’d been working on over the last few days to respond to all of your questions….it was ready to go, so I’ll send it to you anyway.   Again, my deepest appreciation!

“After Scotlandspeople was up and running again, I was able to go back and double check the few records I’d gotten over the years, and put those together with the Canadian records I have.   Extensive searches have only gotten a few vague hits, and I possess only 4 confirmed records in total. 

ILLEGITIMATE - the suggestion that Adam may have been illegitimate was a not one I'd pursued yet for this branch of the family.  Nor had I thought that W might have been his grandfather.  However, I'm familiar with what you are suggesting because it's cropped up in other searches - but in those cases, the child showed up with their mother and kept either her maiden or new married surname.  In one case, the mother even named the father on the birth registration which was very helpful in confirming what information I had.

WHY JEDBURGH?  Back in the 1980s when I was just getting started with our family history, I interviewed my husband’s aunt and then his father.  While each corrected the other’s memory on some details, neither argued that their grandfather Adam had come from Jedburgh.  It’s also in their notes that Adam had a sister Bella who helped with his children when Jane died. 

MORE ABOUT ADAM : We have a page from a family Bible giving Adam’s name and a date which has no relevance to us yet – Nov. 27, 1863, about 6 months before his first marriage; on the reverse of this page is his first wife’s name together with what turned out to be her date of death, Jan. 14, 1873.   We also had a brief obituary listing Jane’s father as James Symington of Lanark, Scotland.    With that information I was able to find their 1864 Ontario marriage registration on Ancestry  (no original available, and one has not been ordered so I cannot confirm if the initial is W or A) on which Adam lists “W” as his father and Agnes as his mother.  On this, he lists his place of birth as “York Tsp, Weston” (which is part of Toronto, Ontario and where he was living at the time).  For many years, that and the Bible entries were all I had.   In the 2000s, I went looking for the birth certificate for another of Adam’s daughters - Elizabeth, my husband’s grandmother - and along the way, discovered a second Ontario marriage for Adam in 1883.  On that marriage registration, Adam listed his father as “William”.    In the 1871 and subsequent censuses, Adam lists his place of birth as “Scotland”.  In the more expansive 1901 Canadian census, Adam lists his year of emigration as 1860 and we finally have his birth date - Jan. 16, 1839.   The year is consistent with ages he gave on other documents we have.

OTHER RECORD SEARCHES – Thank you for the records you have uncovered.  I will study those further.  In the meantime, here is what I’ve uncovered through the years - 
•   I have an OPR birth/baptismal document dated 17/12/1813 for an Adam Bell and his sister Janet of Jedburgh to a Thomas Bell, millwright in Jedburgh and his wife, Isbel(sic) Miller.  Witnesses for Janet are Adam Bell, Mason, and Margaret Bell.  Witnesses for Adam are Adam Bell and Geo Sword. 
•   I have an 1841 census for William Bell, 50, Agnes Bell, 40, Janet, 15 George 12 and William 10 of Moorfoot.   The listings are with others in Swinnie.  I place these settlements just south of Jedburgh, is that right?
•   An Ancestry search for Bells in Jedburgh turned up one Adam Bell in the 1871 census, age 12 living with Walter, 50 and Margaret, 54.    Obviously too late to be our ancestor though.
•   There are a few William Bells in Roxboroshire, but none in Jedburgh and because other locations can’t be confirmed, I haven’t purchased any of these records. 

EASTON as a family name -
•   I wanted to find out if the Easton middle name used in all her official documents by  Agnes, Adam’s daughter, was a family name or just one she liked.
 
It seems that I’m at an impasse.    If you have any further suggestions, I’d be appreciative!”  End

Now, as of tonight, I have ‘new’ work cut out for me!  Many thanks everyone….


Offline terry h

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #12 on: Friday 30 September 16 07:37 BST (UK) »
Hi Jean,

I see Agnes Easton Scott died 3/8/1868 aged 54 at Denholm, Roxburghshire the daughter of David Bell and Margaret Brown (who were both deceased at the time of her death). Cause of death was malignant disease of the abdomen, registered by James Scott, widower.

Again hope this helps.

Terry
g grandfather Thomas Borthwick 11/11/1882 - KIA 25/9/1915 aged 33 Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Brothers & cousins to Thomas (Both KIA same day)
Robert Johnstone Borthwick 1898 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 21 North Staffordshire Regiment

George Lowden Borthwick 1899 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 19 Royal Scots Fusiliers

gr Uncle Walter Combe b1893 - KIA 12/7/1915 aged 22  Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright  GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline terry h

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #13 on: Friday 30 September 16 08:10 BST (UK) »
Final lot of info....  I see William and Agnes were twins and there is a sister isa(bella) b 1858. Over to you :)

Terry

1851 Lanton Jedburgh

Agnes E Scott    Wife      36   1815   Road Maker's Wife   Ancrum, Roxburghshire,
Margaret Scott   Daughter   13   1838   Scholar     Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,
Janet   Scott           Daughter   9   1842   Scholar   Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,
Jesse   Scott           Daughter   7   1844   Scholar   Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,
William Scott   Son      4   1847   -   Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,
Agnes W Scott   Daughter   4   1847   -   Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,
David L Scott   Son      2   1849   -   Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,
James Scott   Son      0   1851   -   Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,


1861 Lanton Jedburgh

James   Scott   -Married   49   1812     Road Surfaceman   Hobkirk, Roxburghshire,
David L   Scott   -      13   1848   -                          Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,    
James   Scott   -   -   11    1850   Scholar          Jedburgh, Roxburghshire,    
Elizabeth   Scott   -   -   7   1854           Scholar                   Roxburghshire,
Isabella   Scott   -   -   3   1858   -                                  Roxburghshire,
William   Dods   -Widower   30   1831   Road Surfaceman              Roxburghshire,
g grandfather Thomas Borthwick 11/11/1882 - KIA 25/9/1915 aged 33 Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Brothers & cousins to Thomas (Both KIA same day)
Robert Johnstone Borthwick 1898 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 21 North Staffordshire Regiment

George Lowden Borthwick 1899 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 19 Royal Scots Fusiliers

gr Uncle Walter Combe b1893 - KIA 12/7/1915 aged 22  Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright  GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline loobylooayr

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #14 on: Friday 30 September 16 08:14 BST (UK) »
Hi Matth364.

Well done on all you have uncovered. Adam Hardie/Bell seems like your man.

His mother Agnes Easton Scott is living only about 3 households from Adam and his grandparents at Lanton in Jedburgh on the 1851 Census -

 
 
SCOTT Agnes E.   Wife Married  36  Roadmaker's Wife Roxburghshire - Ancrum
SCOTT  Margaret Dau 13  Scholar Roxburghshire - Jedburgh
 SCOTT Janet Dau   9 Scholar Roxburghshire - Jedburgh
SCOTT Jesse Dau   7 Scholar Roxburghshire - Jedburgh
SCOTT William  Son  4 Roxburghshire - Jedburgh
SCOTT Agnes W. Dau  4  Roxburghshire - Jedburgh
SCOTT David L. Son 2 Roxburghshire - Jedburgh
SCOTT James Son  5m  Roxburghshire - Jedburgh

Adam had a few half siblings !

Looby :)
 

Added - Ooops  ;D Snap Terry .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Offline terry h

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #15 on: Friday 30 September 16 15:23 BST (UK) »
g grandfather Thomas Borthwick 11/11/1882 - KIA 25/9/1915 aged 33 Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Brothers & cousins to Thomas (Both KIA same day)
Robert Johnstone Borthwick 1898 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 21 North Staffordshire Regiment

George Lowden Borthwick 1899 - KIA 24/3/1918 aged 19 Royal Scots Fusiliers

gr Uncle Walter Combe b1893 - KIA 12/7/1915 aged 22  Kings Own Scottish Borderers

Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright  GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline matth364

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Re: W and Agnes Bell, Jedburgh, 1840s
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 01 October 16 02:44 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone! I'll be on a roll now!

Offline matth364

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Agnes Easton Bell Scott and John Scott, Denholm, Jedburgh
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 27 October 16 23:13 BST (UK) »
"RE: Agnes Easton Scott died 3/8/1868 aged 54 at Denholm, Roxburghshire the daughter of David Bell and Margaret Brown (who were both deceased at the time of her death). Cause of death was malignant disease of the abdomen, registered by James Scott, widower". Information kindly provided to me by Terry on September 30. 

I've now had a chance to do some more searching (not making purchases on Scotlandspeople unfortunately right now) of free sites and some transcriptions provided free online.   I can see that  the Denholm Kirkyard was used post-Agnes' death, and prior, information says that burials were done at Caven.   Would anyone be able to confirm that this would be a good direction for me to go in?  I'm very appreciative of your time.   Thanks, Jean Calgary, Canada.