Author Topic: Who is my McDermott grandfather??  (Read 4621 times)

Offline Surrey Genie

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Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« on: Saturday 01 October 16 22:05 BST (UK) »
My family name is McDermott, or I thought it was!   ???

Up until very recently, my Irish family tree stopped at my grandfather, Thomas McDermott, born 1888, Carrick on Shannon, illegitmate son of Bridget.  I could find nothing more. His birth was apparently not registered.    But now Irish bmds are online and after a great deal of faff, I found Thomas's birth.  His name wasn't McDermott at all, but Keegan.  Well that came as a bit of a shock!

I can only think that he was baptised McDermott, presumably that being the name of his biological father.   I have spent forever trying and failing to find his baptism.

I accept that there's not much anyone can do to help, but I would appreciate some thoughts on this.

Was it normal for a child to be baptised away from where he was born, and where his family were living?
In order to be given the father's name, would that father have to have been present at the baptism of an illegitimate child in 1888?   
Wouldn't it have been very socially unacceptable for the mother to then marry someone else, i.e. NOT the father of that child?   (Which his mother did!)
Why give the child the father's name if she wasn't going to marry him?  In the context of the family, it only makes his illegitimacy even more obvious.

I am beyond confused.
Thanks for listening .........!  ;)




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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 01 October 16 22:28 BST (UK) »
Are you sure all the records you found are for your Thomas McDermott? (it helps if you post the links to the information you already found so that we don't waste time trying to find the same records).

This birth registration (no idea if this is the one you found) is for a Thomas born 1888 Carrick on Shannon Workhouse but mother is Bridget Keegan (not McDermott)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02494/1925018.pdf

Previous post doesn't help figure out why you think Thomas was Keegan not McDermott-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=357286.msg2345189#msg2345189
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Offline heywood

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 01 October 16 22:49 BST (UK) »
I think I see what you mean - the Delaney children's mother is Bridget Keegan - is that it?

... And Bridget Keegan married Patrick Delany.
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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 01 October 16 22:56 BST (UK) »
Delaney   Bridget   28   Female   Step Daughter    Married   -
McDermott   Thomas   12   Male   Grand Son   
Delaney   William   6   Male   Grand Son
Delaney   Margaret   4   Female   
Delaney   Patrick   2   Male   Grand Son

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 01 October 16 23:01 BST (UK) »
1901 census says Thomas McDermott (age 12 born Leitrim) was the grandson of William Gallagher (head of household), so how do you know that his mother was Bridget?
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Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 01 October 16 23:11 BST (UK) »
This is one of those areas where Irish practice deviated from English law.

In law, illegitimate children had no fathers. They were "fillius nullis", which means literally a child of nobody. Therefore civil registrations did not show alleged or reputed fathers, and only the mother's surname will appear.

However, Irish social practice, as in so many things, departed from the English legal prescription. The Irish practice - not universal, but the majority of the time in my opinion - was that an illegitimate child was indeed named for the reputed or alleged father.  For this reason, a father's name often does appear on baptismal records - but not always, and remember that a baptismal name is the Christian name, not a surname.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens; CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter; COSGRAVE Castlebridge; CULLEN Lady's Island; CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook; DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack; FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown; HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wexford; McGILL Litter; MORRIS Forth Commons; PIERCE Lady's Island; POTTS Bennettstown; REDMOND Ballygarrett; ROCHEx2 Wexford; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit; SHERIDAN Monadurtlow; SINNOTT Wexford; SMYTH Gerry/Oulart; WALSH Kilrane/Wexford

Offline brigidmac

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 02 October 16 00:22 BST (UK) »
My family were MacDermid.s from Scot but we got all kinds of spellings

One of my grandad cousins was born in Ireland. The parents never marriied but he was registered as mcdermond they returned to live in Scotland as a married couple !
And he and his sister were Macdermids on all records .very common name too.

There was also an uncle who lived in Ireland for several years ....so your Thomas.s father could have been a Scot !   Pure speculation of course .

Good luck with your search ...you can try to see if there is a court record for an affiliation if the mother tried to get maintenance

modify ,: I.ve just read the link to your other post
Looks like McDermott was her maiden name
She married Delaney ? So who was Keegan ? Did she marry twice ? Did Thomas have a middle name ?

My grandma's middle name on birth cert  was her birth father.s surname but on baptism records it was different !


Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid MCDERMID McDiarmid Gardner Jones ,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson ,McKay

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Re: Who is my McDermott grandfather??
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 02 October 16 07:30 BST (UK) »
".........Thomas McDermott, born 1888, Carrick on Shannon, illegitmate son of Bridget.  I could find nothing more. His birth was apparently not registered.    But now Irish bmds are online and after a great deal of faff, I found Thomas's birth.  His name wasn't McDermott at all, but Keegan.  Well that came as a bit of a shock!

I can only think that he was baptised McDermott, presumably that being the name of his biological father.   I have spent forever trying and failing to find his baptism.............."


Why don't you post links to whatever you are talking about to save others trying to help forever trying and failing to find whatever you are talking about???