Author Topic: Are James Penn of Highworth Wilts and James Penn of Beaconsfield Bucks the same?  (Read 1249 times)

Offline ndmhine

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From the subject line this may may not sound likely, as they are 45 miles apart, but I have a certain amount of circumstantial evidence that a James Penn (my wife's great x5 grandfather) who married, had four children in Highworth and then disappeared is the same person who has four more children in Beaconsfield then disappears again, reappearing in Highworth.

It has become a lot clearer recently with the new ancestry Oxfordshire records. However, I'm wondering if anyone can find a smoking gun of solid evidence as it is an intriguing mystery that I have dedicated a lot of time to but cannot solve.

My entry point is Robert Moore marrying Ann Penn in Highway, Wiltshire (not Highworth!), 14 Oct 1830. Ann puts her birthplace on future census returns as either Holloway's Farm, Bucks or Beaconsfield, Bucks, (like many Victorian women she seems to get older rather more slowly than time passes: DOBs between 1810 and 1820 depending on which census!). There was a Holloway's Farm in Beaconsfield at this time. There is a baptism record for her in 1809 to James Penn and "Mary Trueman" in Beaconsfield in 1809, along with siblings Margaret (1803), Harriet (1805) and George (1806).

Margaret also gets married in Highway, Wiltshire (to John Bradfield in 1824) and puts down Beaconsfield as POB on later census returns.
Harriet gets married in North Hinksey, Berkshire, (to John Kilbee in 1828) and likewise puts Beaconsfield.
George gets married in St Clements, Oxford in (to Martha Townsend in 1826) and likewise puts down Beaconsfield.

There is no other evidence of a James Penn in Buckinghamshire at this time so I looked to see if he could be found in Wiltshire. Intriguingly a good match pops up (who many people have researched before). Born to Daniel Penn and Elizabeth in 1770, he marries Mary Drew in 1794 (confusingly she seems to have gone by the names Mary and Elizabeth - it is different in Banns and Register but I think there is just one marriage), then has children Jane (1795), Sarah (1796), Elizabeth (1798) and Daniel (1800), all with wife "Elizabeth". Then he disappears for 11 years. This gap exactly coincides with the time in Beaconsfield. Then he reappears having Joseph in 1811 (this time with "Mary").

Mary dies in 1821 (at Westrop, Highworth), and John remarries (to a widow, Hannah Trowbridge) and has another daughter (Prudence, who later marries in London).

The circumstantial evidence for these being the same James Penn is too extensive to detail in full, quite strong but based mostly on the names of children (very much overlapping between both sets of Penn children), and locations of marriages of the Highworth children overlapping with the Beaconsfield ones. For example, Daniel marries in South Hinksey, Berkshire, right near Harriet, then lives in Oxford, to which she also moves. Elizabeth marries in Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, next door to Highway. There is lots more but nothing that is really proof.

The one clue to his occupation is that long after he is dead, daughter prudence lists him as a "Butcher" when getting married. I can't think why a butcher would relocate to a town 45 miles away for 10 years then come back.

James Penn himself dies in 1828 (also at Westrop, Highworth), but sadly does not appear to have left a will or a monumental inscription.

The incomplete nature of the Wiltshire records available online for 1760-1780 means I can't rule out the possibility that there were two James Penns, or even that there was one born in Buckinghamshire. However, my gut instinct is that they are the same person - I would love to have some proof (or even stronger hints!). Give me a shout if you can think of any way of investigating further (also I can share the ancestry tree which has all this saved).

Offline ndmhine

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With the release of Wiltshire records on ancestry.com I have had a chance to investigate this mystery of whether the Beaconsfield James Penn is the same as the Highworth one a little further.

The identity of the wife James Penn of Highworth married is clearer: it was almost definitely Mary Drew, born 1771 in Luckington, Wiltshire, to Robert and Lydia Drew, but she often seemed to go by Elizabeth instead. Perhaps she was Elizabeth Mary Drew but used Mary? Buried in Highworth by the name Mary in 1821 with age given as 50 which matches the birth.

So, we have either:

a) James Penn of Highworth marries Mary Drew, has 4 children in Highworth (Jane, Sarah, Elizabeth, Daniel) 1795-1799, then a 12 year gap and then Joseph (1811)

and in between, a different James Penn, otherwise totally unrecorded, would be responsible for the the following records:

James Penn marries Mary Trueman (unrecorded) and has 4 children in Beaconsfield (Margaret, Harriet, George, Ann) 1803-1809

Or b) they are the same people, and the couple have a 6-year association with Holloway's Farm, Beaconsfield before returning to Highworth in Wiltshire.

His daughter Margaret's association with Highway seems to come about because she has an illegitimate child by a John Bradfield, and later marries him. Perhaps Ann came to live with them in Highway, hence marrying Robert Moore, while George, Daniel and Harriet all went off to Oxfordshire.

Sarah and Joseph vanish: no death records or later census records that could be them. Really wish I could resolve this!