Owen Doyle - RDF 1911 Census

[Tim Doyle]

I started out some years ago trying to trace my grandfather's (Jack or John Doyle) WWI experiences with the 2nd Leinsters in France and Belgium. He signed up with the Bristish Army before hostilities commenced in August 1914 as a boy soldier, we think he may have started as a drummer boy in April 1914. He eventually went to the Western Front and was wounded, I think, at the start of the 3rd Battle of Ypres in a place called Shrewsbury Forest. John (Jack) Doyle was eventually discharged from the army in 1919 with his Silver War Badge. I have his medals and am proud to research his history and experiences.

In the process of researching Jack Doyle (2nd Leinster #3613) I have discovered relations that I didn't previously know. One of these is Owen Doyle who in the 1911 census is recorded as being a Lance Corporal with the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers. Beyond that I have no other definitive information on Owen. I think he survived the war and maybe he moved from Limerick to Dublin...? There is a family story (we all have them right?) that Jack and Owen met in some strange, completely random circumstances in France or Belgium. I cannot currently trackdown Owen's Medal Card at Kew as I don't have his regimental number...I haven't yet started to read through the War Diaries as I'd like to know if he continued with the 1st RDF or was he moved to the 2nd or some other regiment all together.

So my question: Is there a way to trace service numbers (and histories - now that would be good!) of 1st RDF soldiers that were professional soldiers prior to WW1?

many thanks in advance

Tim

[gortonboy]

when and where was Owen born?  which 1911 census?

[jim1]

1 Owen Doyle with a pre war number in the RDF MIC's:
No. 9897 Sgt. which is probably him as he was a Cpl. in 1911.
Served Balkans WW1 from 25/5/15.

[cath151]

On Findmypast there is a pre WW1service record for an Owen Doyle 9702 RDF bc 1888 Tullow, Carlow.
Father is Patrick Doyle, also a militia record for same Owen.

Cathy

[MaxD]

If jim1's man is him (likely), then there is a time overlap in France.  2nd Leinsters (John/Jack) were on the Western Front throughout, 1st Dublin Fus (Owen) arrived in France March 1916 after Gallipoli.  Both battalions were in 16th (Irish) Division, 2nd Leinsters from February 1918, 1st Dublin Fus from October 1917.  Owen's medal roll (he finished as a WO II) has 1st and 8th Bn but no dates for the move. 8th (later 8th/9th) were also in France throughout and also in 16th (Irish) Div

maxD

Cathy's man served 3 months from Feb 1907  does the family info check out?

[jim1]

First sighting of CSM Doyle is at St. Jean Ypres Sept. 1916 (going to 2nd. Army School for 1 month)

[Tim Doyle]

Wow! I'm overwhelmed by the detail and number of responses - thank you all so much.

Some questions answered, at least in part:

I've attached the census detail I have for Owen - I believe he's No 25 on the list attached. I have also found him living with his parents at Tallowbeg in the 1901 census.

His family: Father was Patrick Doyle, mother Mary (nee Kennedy). Several sisters and one brother (John/Jack).

Birth: I have what I think is his birth and baptism records. I believe he was born is Carlow on 15 April 1989.

As far as overlaps in WW1 service: I have a theory, backed-up only by circumstantial evidence, that Jack was fairly seriously wounded on or around 31 July 1917 in the 2nd Leinster's action around Shrewsbury Forest and Lone Star Post. I also believe Jack didn't go overseas until April 1916 when he was 19.

Any other leads anybody can provide would be gratefully received!

Many thanks

Tim
PS I can't get the jpeg of the census to post at the moment

[Tim Doyle]

Hi Cathy151

Your comments on the pre-war service records sound promising. I am paid up on Ancestry but not on Findmypast - do you happen to know if the records you found are on Ancestry?

Many thanks

Tim

[MaxD]

The war diary for 2nd Leinsters records them taking their place in the front line on 30 July 1917 in trenches known as Canada Street Tunnel, Larch Wood Tunnel, Mount Sorrell and British Front Line (area 2 on the map at http://www.worldwar1.com/maptr01.htm). (Shrewsbury Forest)
Zero hour for the operation was 0350 31 July 1917.  The Op Order for the attack is in the diary.
Casualties were Officers killed 9, wounded 9, missing nil and died of wounds 2,  ORs K 28 w 149 m 53.

Link for Ancestry  http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60779/43112_2218_1-00000?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d60779%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=43112_2218_1-00206

maxD