GLENDAY John -born 1822 Cupar died 1893 Surrey

[Dette]

I am trying to eliminate this John Glenday from being a part of my husband's family.  That is why I am pursuing him.  William Oliver Hathaway Glenday is a part of the family and I don't know where he got his names from.  No mention of his parents other than his father's name of John on both of his marriage certificates.  As this all happened in India, the information provided in the official records is sketchy at times.  Mothers are not recorded unless on a baptism and sometimes on a death but never on a marriage. Naming patterns aren't helping either. There are no family photographs either.  All of Mark's family are dark skinned - a lot of the time they are mistaken for native Indians whereas they are actually part British, Maruitian and Portageuse.

[Rosinish]

Dette,

I'm not being cheeky but your way of eliminating is not going to solve anything until you can identify & clarify William & his parents.

Have you any documents at all which refer to his father John being in the Army (&/or) which Regiment or his occupation as a Shoemaker?

Occupations are high up on eliminating people & both the above were good occupations which may crop up somewhere?

Have you searched the Wills on SP for father John in Cupar?

Of course there may not be one but worth checking as the Index is FREE.

Do you have an actual address for him in Cupar, have you found on any census where he was born?

Annie

[Annette7]

Been doing some digging re. the 4 children born to John Glenday and Francina in the 1840's.

John Glenday is shown as Gunner (one record says Corporal) in the 3rd Battalion Artillery.

On FindMyPast I then found his will dated 3rd May 1848 leaving all to his wife Francina - although I cannot as yet find a burial entry the fact that his will is there would suggest he died around this time - he is then shown as General Number 1471, Corporal in the 'B' Company Second Battalion Artillery.

I then found what has to be his marriage except it has been recorded as James Glenday - there are in fact 2 records, one clearly James, the other a bit of a mess but looks more like James than anything else.

James Glenday, bachelor, Gunner in the 3rd. Battalion Artillery and Frances Oliver of St. Thomas Mount, Indo Briton - married 19/5/1841 St. Thomas Mount, Madras.

Since all baptisms/burials of children and his will all show him as John (Gunner) can only assume that the name 'James' shown at his marriage to Frances Oliver was incorrect.

So, some records show him in 2nd Battalion but most as 3rd. although I can't seem to find out anything about these regiments.   Think those more skilled in army research need to try and unravel this.

In conclusion, I think there were 2 different John Glenday's - one in 2nd./3rd Battalion Foot Artillery from 1841 (marriage) and 1848 (will, last child's baptism/burial, and his own death) and the other being the title of this thread who was in 50th/51st Regiment.  They definitely appear to be 2 different John Glenday's to me.

Was the name 'James' at marriage a mistake as everything else shows him as 'John'?

Annette   

Added: 3rd Battalion possibly part of 95th Regiment of Foot??

[Annette7]

Just remembered that soldiers killed overseas at that time do not appear in burial records, nor do their service records appear in army service records now available online.    By dying they seem to be obliterated.

My own paternal grandmothers eldest brother Charles Scopes (in Hussars) took his family with him when he went to Bangalore, India.   Twin daughters Kathleen and Eileen were born in 1897 and died soon after - Kathleen died and buried 4/6/1897 and Eileen  died and buried 15/7/1897.   Charles himself died 9/6/1897 but although burials for the girls appear on familysearch/findmypast there is absolutely no trace of a burial for Charles, nor does he appear in service records.  I only found out this information by paying a professional researcher some 30 odd years ago who found out the details from East India Office (?).  Something like that anyway.

There must surely be some records at Kew for John (James?) Glenday who was in 3rd. Battalion Artillery.

Annette

[Rosinish]

I wonder if the name Haddaway is correct?

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG2K-BB3

"William Olliver Henry Glenday"
Died 11 Oct 1900
Age 55
Birth   1845
Occupation Doctor

Annie

[Rosinish]

Does William use all names on all documents?

If so, is there any doubt with the name Haddaway/Henry?

Does he ever just use William O H or any other alternative?

Is his age consistent on any documents where age is given & do none give a specific d.o.b/y.o.b?

Do any mention 'him' being born in different ways e.g. Britain. UK, Scotland?

Annie

[Rosinish]

I just have the birth of four children (one of whom may be my husband's great-great-grandfather.
Dette

Does his son (g g/father) give his father's full name on his marriage & do you have the son's birth cert?
Does it give his father's full name as in William Oliver Haddaway Glenday or another alternative?

Annie

[Annette7]

Dette - from googling etc. I now think that 3rd (later 2nd) Battalion Artillery was actually the Madras Artillery - saw some extracts online from Muster Rolls which showed soldiers names, ages, date of birth, where they were born and when/on what ship they arrived from England.

I suggest you ask on the Army forum here if this battalion was indeed likely to be the Madras Artillery and, if so, you would then need to check Muster Rolls where hopefully you'll find 'your' John Glenday and finally learn where he came from.

Annette

[Annette7]

Have now found the 1st marriage of the John Glenday from Cupar - he married in Chatham, Kent before he went to India.

John Glenday, of full age, Private - 50 Regt., address 'Barracks', father John Glenday, Linen Manufacturer.
Margaret Patterson, of full age, address 'River House', father James Patterson, Baker.
married 27th June 1840 St. Mary's, Chatham, Kent

1. This confirms he was the son of John Glenday (from his occupation) in Cupar.
2. If he was indeed born 1822 he told a 'porkie' as he would only have been 18!

Perhaps Margaret went with him to India, possibly dying en route - certainly can't see any children born to John and Margaret in India, nor a death for a Margaret.

So, 'your' John, the father of William, is clearly the other John Glenday in 3rd. Battalion Artillery who married Frances Oliver in 1841 (as James?) in India.   

At this point we do not know when/where this John Glenday was born but the fact that his will appears on FindMyPast dated in 1848 would indicate he died then or soon after (and also why no more children after 1848).   

You need to locate and get a check done of Muster Rolls from 1841 to 1848 in Madras.   This should then give you the details of where he came from and his age. 

Annette