Author Topic: Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland  (Read 484 times)

Offline Fhotoman12

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Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland
« on: Thursday 03 November 16 00:48 GMT (UK) »
I have a handwritten family history that lists James Proctor, b: 5 Sept 1742. I found a James Proctor Christened in Dondee Scotland on 5 Sept 1742.
I am considering visiting Scotland within the next year and am looking for anyone who might have information on the family and/or things I might do on a visit to Scotland in the next year. I also am looking for a bit of guidance on where to find information in the Angus area.


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Re: Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 03 November 16 09:03 GMT (UK) »
You don't say where your handwritten tree came from, or who compiled it, but the golden rule is, never trust anything unless and until you have checked it out by looking up original documents.

Be aware that quite often people researching their family assume, because they can only find one person in the records who roughly fits the one they are looking for, that this is the right one, when in fact (s)he isn't, and the one they really want isn't actually in the records at all. We've all done it - climbed several branches up a tree, only to discover in the end that it's the wrong tree!

To find information on ancestors in Angus, start in Edinburgh with Scotland's People (SP) www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.

SP has all the statutory civil registers of births, marriages and deaths in Scotland from 1855, and the majority of baptisms and marriages recorded before that. You can (and should) view, at modest cost, original documents for events in your handwritten tree, so that you don't spend time in Scotland looking at stuff you could have looked at from home. But if you need to look at births/baptisms, banns/marriages and deaths, book a day in the Scotland's People Centre in Edinburgh before you do anything else.

See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=24468.0
and http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

Once you are sure that the information you have is reliable, you are then ready to start looking for more information to flesh it out.

Dundee City Archives http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/archive
Friends of Dundee City Archives http://www.fdca.org.uk/index.html has transcriptions of lots of the documents in the archives including burials in the Howff
Angus Archives http://archive.angus.gov.uk/historyaa/archives/
Dundee University Archives http://www.dundee.ac.uk/archives/
National Records of Scotland http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/

For general information on visiting Scotland, see https://www.visitscotland.com/

My pet personal tip for people visiting Scotland is, don't even think about considering the possibility that you might contemplate driving a car in Edinburgh. It's difficult to find your way around thanks to loads of one-way streets; it's very congested so it takes for ever to get anywhere; it's all but impossible to stop once you do get there; and it's very expensive to park. There is an excellent bus service; use it.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

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Offline Fhotoman12

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Re: Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 03 November 16 13:45 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the reply and links.
The creator of the report is unknown but the family that held it was of my Great Grandfather's family. It could be one of two women in that family based on the handwriting. Both were deceased before 1935. I have used that report and searched on census and other sources at the State Historical Society of Wisconsin. I found many members and families listed and all data I find is the same as what is on the handwritten report.

I have used the data to obtain certified records from the General Register Office in London that match the information on the report from my family member. From that experience I believe the report to be pretty good records. I do understand the problem of false data which is why I hesitate to say my data is true but at this time I trust it to be pretty close to factual.

I found the record of my "earliest Ancestor' James on ScotlandsPeople.uk so I believe that and the fact that my data and the online data both cite the same date, 5 Sept 1742, one as Birth (on my record) and one as Christening (on ScotlandsPeople) leads me to think this 'might' be family. I am looking for other proof and any data to the contrary will be considered.

I will continue to search and at this time am 'considering' a trip to see my adopted homeland. I do appreciate your comments about Edinburgh and will put them in my travel folder. I thank you for the sources and will use them.

Offline Fhotoman12

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Re: Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 24 November 16 15:37 GMT (UK) »
As I continue to search my Scotland roots I have found the mother of my ancestor James Proctor is given as Jane Fergusson in the personal record of another family historian. I am looking into this individual and have found on Scotlands People a marriage record of  a Jane Ferguson and James Proctor.
Doing further research regarding Jane I find a listing of her father as Thomas Ferguson. I also find there are many, many births in the time frame of 1730 to 1750 with the father Thomas Ferguson (or Fergusson). Seems to be a very prolific guy or something else is going on. My question is -- I understand Fergus may be a clan name. Was the name used by many different members of the clan as a generic name? I don't live in Scotland so I don't understand the clans and their workings. Can anyone help me?

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Re: Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 24 November 16 16:50 GMT (UK) »
Yes, Ferguson is a clan surname. It was the 38th commonest surname recorded in the Scottish birth indexes in 1990. Thomas is a fairly common given name so it is not surprising that there are numerous Thomas Fergusons. This does not mean that all of them are related to the wife of James Proctor.

You don't say where you are finding all these Thomas Fergusons, but whatever you do, never believe anything you find online other than an image of an original document.

As for the workings of clans, forget it. At best it will continue to confuse you, and at worst it will actually mislead you. Work back step by step from the known to the unknown.

You have the marriage record of James Proctor and Jean Ferguson on 20 July 1776 in the parish of Dunkeld, in the County of Perth, also known as Perthshire. Does this record include the name of Jean's father? If not, be very suspicious of any 'source', especially a second-hand one, that purports to name her father without any further evidence.

I see that neither SP nor the IGI lists any children of this couple. What independent evidence (i.e. evidence other than what is in the tree handed down to you) do you have to suggest that your ancestor is a child of theirs?

You wrote
Quote
I found the record of my "earliest Ancestor' James on ScotlandsPeople.uk so I believe that and the fact that my data and the online data both cite the same date, 5 Sept 1742, one as Birth (on my record) and one as Christening (on ScotlandsPeople) leads me to think this 'might' be family. I am looking for other proof and any data to the contrary will be considered.
Unfortunately this isn't robust, and it certainly isn't 'proof'. It is quite possible that someone else has found this baptism in 1742 and assumed that, because it is the only James Proctor in the right sort of time frame, it must be the right one. This is an assumption you cannot reliably make, and presumably you can't ask the person(s) who compiled your handwritten tree how they arrived at their conclusions.

You say that you have obtained certificates from the GRO in London, so presumably your Proctors must have moved to England? What is your earliest reliable sighting of them, and how do you make the connection back from there to Dundee or Dunkeld?

If you can let us have a few actual facts to get our teeth into, we might be able to help you get back a bit further.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Fhotoman12

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Re: Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland
« Reply #5 on: Friday 25 November 16 00:38 GMT (UK) »
The record that I found on FamilySearch.org quoting Scotland Marriages 1561-1910 does indeed list Thomas Ferguson as the father of Jean Ferguson who married James Proctor.

My handwritten document came from a family member who was related to a GG Aunt who had it. She died in 1888 (at age 30) so I can't get back to that source. It is called the 'Campbell' record and lists about 25-40 people, family that I have found in census records via FamilySearch and Ancestry.com. The record has been correct in every one that I have been able to find. Not perfect but usually if it is off it is a 2 March compared to a 24 March type error. The Campbell record does list the marriage of James Proctor and Jane Fergusson as 30 July 1776 not the 20 July 1776 found on Scotland Marriages.
The earliest record I have from England Records numerous members of the family living in Newcastle Upon Tyne about 1839 so there is a hole from the records I can find in the 1740's to 1839. I have several records in the Newcastle/ Gateshead area that match the Campbell record.
But my most recent question had to do with Thomas Ferguson and the birth of Jane in the 1750 range and her marriage in 1776 and children born starting about 1777. That search brought about the numerous Thomas which prompted my original question. And I will heed the advise to give up trying to figure out the Clans more than just knowing they were there. Thanks for the response

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Re: Proctor Family- Dondee Scotland
« Reply #6 on: Friday 25 November 16 09:43 GMT (UK) »
The record that I found on FamilySearch.org quoting Scotland Marriages 1561-1910 does indeed list Thomas Ferguson as the father of Jean Ferguson who married James Proctor.
Excellent. Does it also say where they lived?

Quote
My handwritten document came from a family member who was related to a GG Aunt who had it. She died in 1888 (at age 30) so I can't get back to that source.
I feared as much :(

When I started out on my tree 30-odd years ago, I found that my great-great-grandmother was Margaret Davidson. The 1851 census told me that she was aged 32, born in Oyne; and the 1861 said she was 42, born in Oyne. I looked at the IGI (on microfiche; this was before the Internet) and found Margaret Davidson, baptised in Oyne in 1819. So I enthusiastically set about tracing her tree using microfilms of the census and parish registers, and found what looked like several generations on both her father's and her mother's sides who lived in the same farms for about 100 years. Only many months later, when I got to what is now the Scotland's People Centre, did I find her death certificate and discovered that the Margaret Davidson I had done so much work on wasn't 'mine' at all. There is no surviving record of my real great-great-grandmother's baptism, but I have found enough proof (baptisms of siblings; family together in successive censuses; her father's death certificate; burial records) to be sure that I now have the right one.

Is it possible that your great-great-aunt could have made a similar assumption?

My question to you is what is the evidence to prove that it is this James Proctor and Jean Ferguson, married in 1776, who are the parents of your ancestors who are in Newcastle by the 1841 census?

See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith